The evolution of the game at the pro level...

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grahler

grahler

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We are seeing a lot of courses made obsolete at the professional level due to technology. With modern gear power is favored a bit more than it used to be. The ball does not fly off line as much. Sweet spots are larger. Equipment is more forgiving...
In baseball pros use wooden bats and they changed the ball a bit...
I think professional golf has moved to a point where the focus is not as much on ballstriking as in past times...I am NOT saying pro golfers are not great strikers-obviously they are but I wonder when it will be necessary to regulate since so many courses are rendered obsolete for professionals...
I think they ought to deaden the ball and increase the spin on it and also limit the club construction...Racecars have limits on weight and displacement and turbocharging...I think it's time for golf to regulate a bit tighter...par should be quite respectable...
I also think the culture should be much much more forceful in regards to tee it forward-when we see folks not playing appropriate tee boxes we as golfers ought to let them know.
I am very curious to get peoples take on this issue.
For me the game should be a stern test from tee to green as well as around the green...I think some aspects of the game are being lost due to equipment evolving past course design...Why not roll things back for the pros? Truly exceptional ballstriking should be rewarded IMO and I would like to see the pros play real par fives not expected free birdie holes...
If you think about it this also brings the mental game more into it...Whaddya say?
 
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grahler

grahler

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Brian,

So you don't think it would be cool to force pros to have to work the ball a bit more and maybe play some longer clubs into par fours???
Do you think it's because it would be good for the marketing aspect ie people like seeing birdies?
Do you feel the modern gear rewards the great ballstrikers as much as the short game wizards?
 
hp12c

hp12c

New
grahler said:
We are seeing a lot of courses made obsolete at the professional level due to technology. With modern gear power is favored a bit more than it used to be. The ball does not fly off line as much. Sweet spots are larger. Equipment is more forgiving...
In baseball pros use wooden bats and they changed the ball a bit...
I think professional golf has moved to a point where the focus is not as much on ballstriking as in past times...I am NOT saying pro golfers are not great strikers-obviously they are but I wonder when it will be necessary to regulate since so many courses are rendered obsolete for professionals...
I think they ought to deaden the ball and increase the spin on it and also limit the club construction...Racecars have limits on weight and displacement and turbocharging...I think it's time for golf to regulate a bit tighter...par should be quite respectable...
I also think the culture should be much much more forceful in regards to tee it forward-when we see folks not playing appropriate tee boxes we as golfers ought to let them know.
I am very curious to get peoples take on this issue.
For me the game should be a stern test from tee to green as well as around the green...I think some aspects of the game are being lost due to equipment evolving past course design...Why not roll things back for the pros? Truly exceptional ballstriking should be rewarded IMO and I would like to see the pros play real par fives not expected free birdie holes...
If you think about it this also brings the mental game more into it...Whaddya say?
Click to expand...

Im in the opposite camp no restrictions whatsoever on equipment, COR for clubs gone, balls make em fly straight and long. I mean lets see just how far can we get this little pill to fly. Grooves wider deeper the better, gonna really hold on those greens. I know some will say but thats not golf, well we can alway go back to hickory shafts, feathery balls if we really want to play traditional golf. The game has is changing and will continue to change. Imagine Bubba having to hit a 5 wood on the tee on a par 4 cause he will fly the green with his new driver, or drive a 500yd par 5 with his driver that would be awesome, the pros would need to club down, 40 under would be normal and every day guys could compete with the pros:cool:
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
It's interesting that you bring up the racing analogy because i brought it up before when all the groove talk was going on; the reality is that no matter what you do with the ball the engineers will find a way around it. It's just like racing, create rules and creative people will find ways around them.

Case in point (warning i'm a former/revised gearhead)...a lot of the racing organizations put limitations on electronic boost controllers on turbo motors because of their advantage of being able to control when and how hard the boost hit. So what did they do? They figured out how to use electronically controlled relays that controlled how much air the blow off valves would bleed off effecting making it an electronic boost controller.

My point is that the ball technology is too far ahead, limit it one way and the engineers will figure out a way around it.
 
T

Tony D'Antonio

New
We may be too quick to say the new technology is relegating old courses obsolete. I can only speak to two old courses here in SF, Olympic and Harding. Both seem to be able to stand up to today's players and equipment quite well. Now both have had significant length added but the routing of both is the same as its been for 80 years (give or take). I really was impressed with the changes to both courses. They were really well done. In addition, many trees have been cut down and back and this has made both courses more beautiful while at the same time keeping the penalties in place. I will say that the length of Olympic took my breath away. I could not play that course at the length that it was played for the Open. It was ridiculous. As for the weekend golfer, the new technology has certainly not made any courses obsolete. You still have to hit the ball pretty well although I will say modern drivers are way easier to hit than the old wooden headed ones.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I'm only in favor of it because it would make me more competitive. So I don't know if it's right or wrong but I liked it when you had to hit the middle of the face and the ball spun more.
 
L

Lindsey Newman

New
I know it would kill the industry, but I would love tournament spec equipment for pros and high level am golf. Only thing that could be different are grips, length and lie.
 
Frans@France

Frans@France

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changes like that would hurt the "slower" golfer but not the 140mph golfers. Just keep the rough longer and the greens smaller....my 2cents:D
 
W

wulsy

New
The game of golf is a PASTIME, ie is played for enjoyment purposes.

In it's current form it's FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR too hard for most and just because it SEEMS to some to be too easy for a few blessed souls there's always this boolsheet argument about equipment.

Ask a MTD if it's too easy.;)
 
D

dbl

New
When the USGA/R&A changed the Overall Distance Standard from 296.8 yards to 320 yards in 2004, albeit using newer testing procedures (ie a metal driver), my opinion is this did as a minimum nudge up the allowable distances. But of course, by then the horses were out of the gate, tour quality solid balls having been out since essentially 2000.
 
Virtuoso

Virtuoso

New
Clubface angle at impact......what separates the men from the little girly boys. It was a problem in 1929...it's a problem now.....and it will still be a problem in 2029.
 
B

Bigwill

New
Today's golfers are sissies, babied by the technology that allows them to hit it like crap and still shoot a score. I long for the players of yesteryear, who were masters at their crafts, unlike today's mashers who get by because of overly forgiving clubs and shafts. Where's Ben Hogan?!? He'd show these posers a thing or two....
 
K

Keefer

New
Brian Manzella said:
The only thing that is hurting golf is the stupid fascination with "par."
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There's your answer right there (par).

"Par" was a word in use in the general population long before it acquired its golf meaning.

The general meaning of par is average, ordinary, usual. When the term entered the golf lexicon (at least by the 1890s), it was often used interchangeably with bogey. At that time, bogey meant the ideal score, and the term "bogey" was more widely used than the term "par."

Over time, and by the early 1900s, the two terms acquired their current golf meanings. "Par" came to denote the ideal score for the best golfers, while "bogey" was applied to a score that recreational golfers would be happy with.

"Par" was only officially added to the golf lexicon in 1911, when the USGA defined it as "perfect play without flukes and under ordinary weather conditions, always allowing two strokes on each putting green."
 
B

Bigwill

New
Actually, I agree with Brian. The old guard seems to have an issue with the red numbers. The irony to me is that because the ball spins less, which makes it curve less and go farther, it also makes the ball more susceptible to faster greens. Firm up the greens, grow the rough just enough to influence the spin, but not so much that they have no option but to hack it out. It's as if the PGA and others are so concerned about distance, that everything is viewed through that lens. I don't know much about golf course architecture, but I'm pretty sure that you can do other things to make a course challenging besides just moving the tees back.


Besides, since the greens are generally firmer and the ball spins less, doesn't it make sense to give up on the notion of having the modern pros hit the same clubs as the old pros into the greens. Even if they have the same iron in hand (one with old equip and balls, one with new stuff), am I wrong in saying that it won't be the same shot because of the loft differences in the clubs, the spin differences of the balls, and the differences in green speed from then to now?

One of the best things about golf is the tradition. I think for some people, embracing change and appreciating tradition and history are mutually exclusive. They don't have to be.
 
B

BIGBALL

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Bigwill said:
Today's golfers are sissies, babied by the technology that allows them to hit it like crap and still shoot a score. I long for the players of yesteryear, who were masters at their crafts, unlike today's mashers who get by because of overly forgiving clubs and shafts. Where's Ben Hogan?!? He'd show these posers a thing or two....
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Well played sir!
 
B

Bigwill

New
duckjr78 said:
I have no problem with the idea of "Stock Golf."
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My only problem with this is the player would have to adjust to the equipment. I don't think that the better athlete should be punished and be made to rein in his athleticism. The best thing about equipment advances is that you can have your equipment fit to you. If all of the equipment had the same flex and loft, then the guys for whom that flex and loft is closest to matching what they do is at a distinct advantage.

I think that when everyone has equipment that matches them, then the equipment becomes a non-issue. Then it's your skill vs my skill, may the best man win. Isn't that the point?
 
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Frans@France

Frans@France

New
wulsy said:
The game of golf is a PASTIME, ie is played for enjoyment purposes.

In it's current form it's FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR FAR too hard for most and just because it SEEMS to some to be too easy for a few blessed souls there's always this boolsheet argument about equipment.
Click to expand...

If you play golf as a pastime then accept the "pastime" score. The fact is that most "pastimers" do not want to acept a bogey score and hence they feel it is "far far far to hard" but it is not....
 
duckjr78

duckjr78

New
Bigwill said:
My only problem with this is the player would have to adjust to the equipment. I don't think that the better athlete should be punished and be made to rein in his athleticism. The best thing about equipment advances is that you can have your equipment fit to you. If all of the equipment had the same flex and loft, then the guys for whom that flex and loft is closest to matching what they do is at an distinct advantage.

I think that when everyone has equipment that matches them, then the equipment becomes a non-issue. Then it's your skill vs my skill, may the best man win. Isn't that the point?
Click to expand...

I'm fine with adjusting lofts, lengths, lie, grip size, etc. All of these have fairly clear give and take relationships as you change them. What I would like is a standard clubhead and ball. All clubs get tested for grooves, COR, etc before and after each round or tourney. Same with the ball testing.

Heck, gimme two tours, one Stock tour and one F1 tour. Just kidding, sort of.
 
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