The First String is in the game!

[Brian Manzella]

Horton and Mandrin....

Welcome to MY site.

Let me get a couple of things straight from the get go, ok?

This IS NOT THE Golfing Machine site or even A Golfing Machine site.

This is MY site.

My name is Brian Manzella. I have studied the golfing swing for more hours in the last 20 years than nearly ANYONE on the planet.

I was an EXCELLENT instructor BEFORE I went to see Ben Doyle and got into the Authorized Instructor test (the HARD one) and teaching with a basic, then very advanced, level of "Golfing Machine" working knowledege. I am much, much better now then ever, thank you.

I AM a GSED now, but....as I have said before....I am my OWN MAN. We discuss other books and methods as well as my own (Never Slice Again).

All methods CAN be explain in The Golfing Machine book because it is very complete.

BUT!

The book IS discussed on this site because of mainly one reason:

I CAN MAKE IT UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!

Soooooo...

You have to debate ME now.

Here goes....

The Line of Compression first.

Fact#1: You can hit a ball on the "sweetspot" at 100 mph and the ball can go 250. You can take the SAME CLUB AND BALL, hit it 100mph and the ball can go 270.

Agree or disagree?

note: no one else but these two guys and me on this one, ok. I'll unlock the other threads soon.

And for Horton and Mandrin....ONLY DEBATE ONE FACT AT A TIME, in this case the Fact#1

 

[Brian Manzella]

.....

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Horton and Mandrin....

Welcome to MY site

I AM a GSED now, but....as I have said before....I am my OWN MAN. We discuss other books and methods as well as my own (Never Slice Again).

The book IS discussed on this site because of mainly one reason:

I CAN MAKE IT UNDERSTANDABLE!!!!

The Line of Compression first.

Fact#1: You can hit a ball on the "sweetspot" at 100 mph and the ball can go 250. You can take the SAME CLUB AND BALL, hit it 100mph and the ball can go 270.

Agree or disagree?

For the sake of discussion, I agree ..... Launch Monitor testing has shown that to be true due to differing launch parameters.

Thank you for your response to my postings and I hope you had a pleasant and productive time in FL. I look forward to your assistance with TGM and I respect you and your website.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Thanks!

Now for the small amount of time the club is on the ball....

It CAN be increased by a very strange and elusive thing-a-ma-gig...


T-E-C-H-N-I-Q-U-E!

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Thanks!

Now for the small amount of time the club is on the ball....

It CAN be increased by ..... T-E-C-H-N-I-Q-U-E!

The Dwell Time of the ball on the clubface can be affected by many physical factors during Impact and also by the club and ball construction.

Obviously ball striking technique affects the Impact Event.

So what is your point about technique and LOC .... ?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Horton ole buddy...

I have played some footabll in my life (still do). Ever play?

In football there is something called a "form tackle."

Basically, it is how is you get your arse under you whne you make contact, you can use the earth to stop the runner cold (or cold-er).

Same in golf. If you REALLY COMPRESS the ball through proper hand, arm and body conditions, the wreck at impact is a BIGGER win for the clubhead.

Another way to look at it is this:

Attach a Ford truck (F-250 superduty) front to a bike. A schwinn.

Pedal down hill and get to 40mph.

Hit a deer.

Impact speed 40mph...after impct speed 1mph...deer falls down (maybe).

Put the F-250 front back on the Ford.

Drive down hill.

Hit the deer.

Impact speed 40mph...after impacr speed 20mph...deer goes flying.

GET IT?

 

[horton]

Brainman ::

<center>No</center>

 

[Brian Manzella]

Ok...

If you have a Forward leaning shaft you get more compression.

If the shaft is stressed you get more compression.

If your body is supporting the hit you get less decelaration.

The LONGer the club is on the ball (sustaining the line of compression) the farther the ball goes given any clubhead speed at impact.

GET IT?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hello folks! Welcome to the bi-monthly arse wuppin' given out by your host, The Itallion Stallion, Brian Manzella.

The part of the New Jersey Generals will be played by Horton.

I take issue with your reference to "compression".
It is actually deform-ation.

If you have a Forward leaning shaft you have a de-lofted clubhead.
Should the divot occur after the iron contact?

Of Course.

The ONLY way to do it is to have forward lean at impact.

If the shaft is stressed it is subjected to tension, compression, torsion and vibration.
True.

But if force is BEHIND the shaft at impact, the bending and unbending can contribute to "smash factor."

If your body is supporting the hit you are in dynamic balance.
It doesn't have anything to do with dynamic balance. It is simply being in a position to resist (somewhat) the ball's attempt to slow down the club.

You Said: "The LONGer the club is on the ball (sustaining the line of compression) the farther the ball goes given any clubhead speed at impact." How do you know this happens? Where is your proof? Assumptions are not valid proof.

If I throw a punch that hits you in the mouth, but the punch is on a 10 degree angle to your head, it is a "glancing blow", no?

If I hit you straight-on, you go to the hospital.

You said: The LONGer the club is on the ball (sustaining the line of compression) the farther the ball goes given any clubhead speed at impact."

According to the scientific study done by: Thomas, F.W., (1987) Groove Study - Phase II. USGA Technical Report, Far Hills, NJ.It was determined that:
]1) - The contact time during the Impact, decreases with increasing velocity.

So sorry.

I didn't say which LONGER I was refering to.

I meant a longer DISTANCE not stopwatch time.

If I hit you in the mouth square-on my hand is in contact with your face for a LONGER DISTANCE as you fall to the canvas.

Brian 4 1/2...other guy (horton) 1/2

 

[Brian Manzella]

Itallion Stallion/Globetrotters (Manzella) in Navy
New Jersey Generals (horton) in black

So is it the "line of compression" or "the line of deformation"?
Either.

Can you get a divot with a forward leaning clubhead if there is a reverse pivot?
Yup.

What has "forward leaning shaft" have to do with LOC?
A bunch. If the shaft ISN'T leaning forward at impact, you have a LOB SHOT.


What "force" are you referring to? Remember that the clubhead "disconnects" and freewheels through Impact, so anything you do to the shaft during the Impact event is irrelevant to Smash Factor.
It is called Lag Pressure. (see pic)

Manzella 8 1/2 horton 1/2...10-run rule in effect

 

[Brian Manzella]

Manzella in Navy/ Horton in Black

"the line of deformation"? .. NO SUCH THING IN VECTOR ANALYSIS.
This is not a point, it is semanics. You full well realize you asked me about the word compress. Call it what you want.

ARE YOU SUGGESTING THAT THERE IS NO LOC FOR LOB SHOTS EVEN THOUGH THERE IS IMPACT FORCE? HOMER MAY DISAGREE WITH YOU OR AT LEAST ROLL OVER.
Sure there is. Never said otherwise. It just wouldn't be a very well SUSTAINED LOC.

DON'T BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU HEAR AND HALF OF WHAT YOU SEE.(hogan pic) LAG PRESSURE DISAPPEARS THROUGH IMPACT AND THAT IS PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC STUDIES.
Post your studies and get a point

No score in the third quarter.

Manzella 8 1/2...Horton 1/2 and a lot of hot air.

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

LAG PRESSURE DISAPPEARS THROUGH IMPACT AND THAT IS PROVEN WITH SCIENTIFIC STUDIES.

Post your studies and get a point

Sure, just for your brainman::

From the Proceedings of the First World Scientific Congress of Golf - University of St. Andrews, Scotland - July 1990. the following scientific study was preseented:

"Evaluation of golf club control by grip pressure measurement - D.R. Budney, D.G. Bellow - Department of Mechanical Engineering, University of Alberta."

Conclusion

Grip pressure measurement indicated pressure levels applied by both professional and amateur golfers throughout the swing including at address. Unusually high and low grip pressure levels were deteted for some golfers.

Control by left or right hand was identified. Loosening of the grip at Impact was also determined by grip pressure measurement. Timing of the hit was also obtained.

brianman --- if you were able to read and study the complete findings of this seminal study, you would be astounded by the precipitous drop in right hand PP#3 pressure at Impact. To get this scientific study, just visit your nearest university library and get it for free.

^^^^^^horton rules^^^^^^

 

[Brian Manzella]

Listen guys and horton.....

Debates need to be MODERATED.

Guys like horton and yes DA, come on here and ramble.

For crying out loud, go read the beginning of this thread.

I made great points and Mr. Horton's response was :NO

At that point, the debate was really over.

 

[Brian Manzella]

And to respond,

I have seen the blue book: Science and Golf that many of horton's ideas came from.(mikestloc owns it)

It, unlike TGM, was shortly forgotton after publication and sold very few copies.

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Listen guys and horton.....

Debates need to be MODERATED.

Guys like horton and yes DA, come on here and ramble.

For crying out loud, go read the beginning of this thread.

I made great points and Mr. Horton's response was :NO

At that point, the debate was really over.

Football, Ford and flying is not my idea of debating the scientific merits of TGM. I provide the forum with solid scientific research that contradicts Homer's intuitive physics that he proclaims is the basis of his G.O.L.F. System and YOU delete it because you don't want it posted.

The real shame is those that promote TGM have abandoned updating and revising TGM and removing Homer's scientific gaffs. No wonder the PGA reject TGM as a valid golfswing analysis and methodology.

All that needs to be done is to get rid of the unscientific scientific crap in TGM and simplify those concepts with convenient fiction to help the golfer do the right thing. Nobody really cares that PP#3 nearly vanishes during the Impact Event to sustain some ficticious LOC, but the visualization is great. Claiming that PP#3 helps lever the club through the ball is just plain false scientifically, but it works to make the swing smooth and balance through Impact. Retain the Lag and then keep on Thrusting !!!!

Homer has not failed, it is those trying to capitalize on TGM who have utterly failed to rationalize TGM with current scientific knowledge about the golfswing. Perhaps those who control and represent TGM prefer to leave thing as they are and milk it for what it's worth. Pity ... particularily for those who have a blind faith in Homer.

TGM Simplified .... that's what I want to see ....

 

[Brian Manzella]

Buy my videos and stop the INSANITY!!!

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Buy my videos and stop the INSANITY!!!

You have videos? How many? How does one buy them? Can you provide a synopsis of the content of your videos? Thanks and please don't go insane.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Perhaps you didn't know, but I cured the SLICE about 5 years ago.

I could ALWAYS help a slicer and fix 95.2% of them.

But...I put the REST of the pieces together about 5 years ago.

100% of my students are NON-SLICERS!!!

So....I decided to do a video.

First I would do a "practice (Beta) version" that esteemed members of the forum like yourself, could buy to participate in a TESTING program.

You watch the tape, do a short review, you get the 1.0 commercial version when it comes out and keep the Beta.

The reviews are posted here as well as dozens of emails.

It has sold a few hundred copies and the 1.0 version will be shot in early January.

"Do It Right" is my expalnation of a 4-barrel "Maximum Participation Stroke" like the one Ben Doyle teaches. It is in beta also and the reviews are here too.

The 1.0 version of it will be very different in that in will include 5 more stroke patterns, presented in a different order. The beta is a very good video though.

 

[horton]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Perhaps you didn't know, but I cured the SLICE about 5 years ago.

I could ALWAYS help a slicer and fix 95.2% of them.

But...I put the REST of the pieces together about 5 years ago.

100% of my students are NON-SLICERS!!!

So....I decided to do a video.

Fortunately I do not "slice" but will occasionally "push" the ball into right field. I do "pull" the ball, but most of my drivers are "straight through" and "freewheeling". My problem is Address alignment to the target because I am rather tall. Btw, I do not carry all that scientific sh!t on the golf course because I have been a performing athlete, and I just go with what I've got. I can make knowledgeable adjustment, but will only "go scientific" during practice on the range or hitting room. I think I have paid the price of study and practice to get my homemade swing and game to it's present high level. TGM is frustratingly fascinating, but I can't buy it with all it's scientific gaffes. A clarified version of TGM would be helpful.

 

[Michael Finney]

it is more often (and thus more correctly) spelled "gaffe" or "gaffes"......but why should one small error in a post taint the entire body of the post????