The Future is Now (and there ain't no going back) - by Brian Manzella

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Why does TM cost so much to make? Like Brian said someone is working hard to make a cheaper one and just as effective.... That person is next in line on the retirement scale.

Who says it costs a lot to make? It costs a lot to buy. S'different. Especially if you've sunk a load of cash into R&D, and especially especially if your competitors would have difficulty in duplicating what you've got.
 

ZAP

New
If I could afford a TM I would buy one today. Until I am able to buy one I will just have to settle for seeing Brian and Kevin a couple of times a year to make sure I am on the right track(no pun intended). We have a local prop who is seriously considering buying one but has not pulled the trigger yet. My hope is that he will make it available for rent as well.
 

Brian Manzella

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What the heck the price of TM have to do with anything?

I will say it one more time:

CLUB DELIVERY and BALL FLIGHT information devices are HERE TO STAY and it is a LOT HARDER to make a golf swing have good numbers than look good on video.
 
Who says it costs a lot to make? It costs a lot to buy. S'different. Especially if you've sunk a load of cash into R&D, and especially especially if your competitors would have difficulty in duplicating what you've got
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25,000 x 100 or 2,500 x 1000 both the same but last one looks easier especially since casio are 200 to 400
 
What the heck the price of TM have to do with anything?

I will say it one more time:

CLUB DELIVERY and BALL FLIGHT information devices are HERE TO STAY and it is a LOT HARDER to make a golf swing have good numbers than look good on video.

What the heck has price got to do with mass market uptake? I'd say there's a relationship. So would Henry Ford.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Birly,

The price of these devices will move lower.

It happens in every technology in history.

The THESIS is simple:

CLUB DELIVERY and BALL FLIGHT information devices are HERE TO STAY and it is a LOT HARDER to make a golf swing have good numbers than look good on video.
 
A whole lot of tour players know their numbers.

I can say for certain that only someone with an agenda would post veiled, insincere replies to other posters so that they could get a pat on the butt from their pals other places. ;)

Ya that's my motive, ya got me all figured out.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I repeat:

The THESIS is simple:

CLUB DELIVERY and BALL FLIGHT information devices are HERE TO STAY and it is a LOT HARDER to make a golf swing have good numbers than look good on video.
 

dbl

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On the cost thing, I'm not sure cost detractor are very aware of the costs to produce...anything. A person can't just run down to Radio Shack and solder together a few components costing less than $200. Think of an effort involved in programming and research, say just 20 programmers at $50,000 a year, other staff, building/rent etc before you even get to consider your orders for X number of units of doppler radar; plus design and manufacturing, costs for molds and assemblies. Several million dollars, much of that before you get to sell any devices. And when you do, you need to cover costs and make a profit etc. Other entrants will be able to figure some things out since it has "been shown to them" what and how a device would work. As to TM.dk unit pricing I do not believe it's just a matter of them getting the highest possible price they can (other than they may have looked at a revenue maximizing price point).
 
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Brian,

Curious as to what you do with the data you collect during a lesson. Do you erase it from lesson to lesson? I'm going to do some driver testing on TM this week and will have to opportunity to get some data on other clubs if I want to. I have a recollection of my numbers from our lesson but not the exact figures. Would be good to compare if possible.
 
.... it is a LOT HARDER to make a golf swing have good numbers than look good on video.

Ahhh... but what if you believe that a good looking swing on video has good numbers? What if that's the foundation of your theories?

What if a measurement tool comes along and systematically challenges that foundation? How do you respond? Do you regroup, adjust, and integrate the new correct information, or do you go into lock down and attack anything that moves? Do you continue to teach in the dark?

What if a group of long players look a certain way? What if a group of accurate players look a certain way? What if a group of winning players looked like neither? What look do you teach? What if there was a tool that sees what the camera based theories can't? What if that tool could see similarities between successful players beyond how they looked?

What if the ball doesn't care how a swing looks? What if a tool came along that could actually see what influences the ball? Would that be of any interest to an instructor?

What if more than one of these tools exist? What if there was an online resource that has been at the forefront of teaching with these tools? What if that resource was open and helpful to anyone with a desire to improve their craft? Would you ridicule or utilize it?




Just some important questions to ask when you are considering a path to improvement.
 

jimmyt

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Ahhh... but what if you believe that a good looking swing on video has good numbers? What if that's the foundation of your theories?

What if a measurement tool comes along and systematically challenges that foundation? How do you respond? Do you regroup, adjust, and integrate the new correct information, or do you go into lock down and attack anything that moves? Do you continue to teach in the dark?

What if a group of long players look a certain way? What if a group of accurate players look a certain way? What if a group of winning players looked like neither? What look do you teach? What if there was a tool that sees what the camera based theories can't? What if that tool could see similarities between successful players beyond how they looked?

What if the ball doesn't care how a swing looks? What if a tool came along that could actually see what influences the ball? Would that be of any interest to an instructor?

What if more than one of these tools exist? What if there was an online resource that has been at the forefront of teaching with these tools? What if that resource was open and helpful to anyone with a desire to improve their craft? Would you ridicule or utilize it?




Just some important questions to ask when you are considering a path to improvement.


Oh Mike.....you so smart...........:p
 
S

SteveT

Guest
Ahhh... but what if you believe that a good looking swing on video has good numbers? What if that's the foundation of your theories?
....................

Just some important questions to ask when you are considering a path to improvement.


Yes!!!! The "feel" test... the "look" test... the "numbers" test... and the "results" test .... does that about cover it all..:confused:
 
And, it's just not golf moving from video to science..

From yesterday's WSJ > Cracking the Long-Jump Code
A snip from the article..

As part of BMW's USOC sponsorship efforts ahead of the London Games, engineers from the car maker have donated their time to construct a camera system that is designed to provide something jumpers have never had before: immediate quantitative feedback.

The distance of a long jump hinges on the moment when a jumper transfers his horizontal velocity (running speed on the runway) into vertical velocity as he leaps off the board. Most elite long jumpers are able to generate a vertical velocity that is about a third of their horizontal velocity—but, generally, the higher that ratio, the longer the jump.

BMW's research involves using a special "stereo" camera outfitted with two lenses to film athletes as they jump. The camera, which BMW is developing for the purposes of lane-detection systems in its automobiles, turns video into data that is processed through an algorithm on an open-source robotics system. After a jump, the system spits out three crucial numbers on a trackside monitor: A jumper's horizontal velocity, his vertical velocity as he left the board and his angle of flight.

On a recent weekday morning at Azusa Pacific University outside of Los Angeles, Cris Pavloff, an advanced technology engineer at BMW, tested the company's equipment for the first time on decathlete Bryan Clay, a two-time Olympic medalist. As the system evolves, Clay said, he hopes he'll be able to make instant changes to his technique while the memory of the jump is still fresh in mind. If his takeoff angle isn't right, he can adjust his hips. If his vertical velocity is off target, he can shorten his stride as he approaches the long-jump board.
 
I heard from a source at Trackman that many of the teachers out on the PGA Tour are just resistant to changing their methods to create more optimal numbers for their players. They just dig in.

It is always refreshing to see a coach like Brian Manzella be open minded to making his coaching technqiue better - even if it requires admitting that he didn't have all the answers before Trackman came along.
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
I heard from a source at Trackman that many of the teachers out on the PGA Tour are just resistant to changing their methods to create more optimal numbers for their players. They just dig in.

It is always refreshing to see a coach like Brian Manzella be open minded to making his coaching technqiue better - even if it requires admitting that he didn't have all the answers before Trackman came along.

It is changing fast though.

Club measurement devices all over the place.

MARK THIS DOWN:

If you teach anything like "lag" "forward lean" or """"compression"""" —and you don't have a TrackMan or device that gives you an idea about Angle of Attack, YOU WILL HAVE MULTIPLE STUDENTS WITH CRAZY DOWNWARD ANGLE OF ATTACKS.

I REPEAT:

If you teach anything like "lag" "forward lean" or """"compression"""" —and you don't have a TrackMan or device that gives you an idea about Angle of Attack, YOU WILL HAVE MULTIPLE STUDENTS WITH CRAZY DOWNWARD ANGLE OF ATTACKS.
 
S

SteveT

Guest
It is changing fast though.

Club measurement devices all over the place.


Brian... How fast are things changing? Will the PGA require teachers to be competent on the "club measuring devices" before awarding them PGA teaching credentials?

Or will there be an Old School and New School conflict and upheaval that may even undermine the PGA establishment?
 
If you are successful as a teacher doing what you do now, and "now" doesn't include TrackMan, I can see a legit apprehension to have the orange guy telling you something you don't want to hear.

I try to tell "old school" teachers that the D-plane and launch monitors don't necessarily have to change what they teach but, if it doesn't, it will explain WHY what they teach works. Of course, everybody learns at least a little something more when they first learn how all the numbers work.
 
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