The New X-Factor

[vandal]

Anyone read the latest from Peter Kostis in the new Golf Magazine? He seems to be promoting a hip turn while leaving the shoulders behind.

quote:The new X-factor is achieved when you rotate your hips toward the target as fast and as fully as possible, while keeping your shoulders turned back.

quote:The key to the new X-factor is the first move down from the top—the change in direction—and you should start it by rotating your hips (illustartion at left) toward the target just as your shoulders are completing the backswing turn.

There's more here: http://www.golfonline.com/golfonline/instruction/fullswing/article/0,17742,1148865,00.html

If you look at one of the impact positions of Kostis though it looks like he's flipping! Another thing he talks about is rolling the right foot instead of lifting it. But there are several photos of pros used and they all look like they are lifting their right heels and not rolling.

I'm not sure what to make of this. Is this good advice or a misinterpretation of data?

 

[golfie]

This article (Peter "discovers" that pros hips are open at impact!) and in particular Kostis' impact position has caused to me to not renew my subscription. Barf - o - rama.

Golfie

 

[MizunoJoe]

vandal,

A chained sequence from the ground up, is a powerful way to swing, but not the only way. It can cause lower back problems. Many prefer to use hip movement only to put the upper body in a good position to unwind into the ball over a stable base.

 

[kmmcnabb]

M Joe,

Is that the way HK recommends it? It seems to me that most TGMers take out the slack (so to speak) and then fire which seems to me what you are discribing versus the "new" X factor.

 

[Biffer]

At the top of the backswing, if you have eliminated slack between your shoulders and hips, it's impossible to turn your hips without your shoulders also moving. I'm really surprised that Kostis came up with this stuff, since he's a fairly smart guy about the golf swing in general. BTW, the original x-factor theory is bogus as well. The differential between the shoulders and hips on the backswing does not contribute to producing force on the forward swing.

 

[wanole]

most people are flexible or talented enough to get the club back on the ball swinging like that IMO.

This X factor isn't anything new by the way.

 

[EdZ]

quote:Originally posted by kmmcnabb

M Joe,

Is that the way HK recommends it? It seems to me that most TGMers take out the slack (so to speak) and then fire which seems to me what you are discribing versus the "new" X factor.

X factor (new or old) is, I would agree, a way of describing taking out the slack - of creating and keeping lag pressure - and the proper sequence that this requires

In short - the feel of a 'heavy' clubhead

 

[shootin4par]

gee great article, when can i write nothing new and have it printed in a magazine. Ever wonder why tiger is driving it so far now? He is using the new bean factor. He eats a lot of 13 been soup with hamhocks the night before a tourney. He holds off releasing any gas untill he is on the tee box. He takes his backswing and right before impact he lets it rip, a solid 20 yards to your tee shot right there. Heis the one who came up with it and just like Hogan has a "secret" that is tigers. It is tigers new "explosive" shot!

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by Biffer

At the top of the backswing, if you have eliminated slack between your shoulders and hips, it's impossible to turn your hips without your shoulders also moving.

Yes, but by holding the right shoulder back, it must move downplane.

 

[scripkilla]

I agree with keeping your shoulders as fully turned as comfortably possible during the DS. However, as others have pointed out, this is not new at all. There have been publications on this for over 50 years. The late Leslie King of the UK used this concept as the keystone of his swing theory. See also his top followers publications .. "the swing factory".

Here's a quoted paragraph from Leslie King's series of instruction:

******************************************************************
At the top we should have a clear sensation of the potential power in the hands and wrists.... and equally a clear awareness that the hands and wrists are in control of the club.

Now, maintaining the shoulders in the fully turned position, we simply commence the downward swing of the left hand and arm. That is how the downswing starts, and nothing could be simpler!

I stress again, the SHOULDERS MUST REMAIN IN THE FULLY TURNED POSITION at the beginning of the downswing! The same left foot action that has "charged" the hands with power is enabling us to control the shoulders.

By keeping the shoulders fully turned the left hand and arm can swing freely from the left shoulder, taking the club-head down into the ball on a club line that will result in a swing into and along the line of flight through impact.


Hold your shoulders in the fully turned position as the left hand and arm begins to swing down... this ensures good club line through the ball

*******************************************************************

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by shootin4par

gee great article, when can i write nothing new and have it printed in a magazine. Ever wonder why tiger is driving it so far now? He is using the new bean factor. He eats a lot of 13 been soup with hamhocks the night before a tourney. He holds off releasing any gas untill he is on the tee box. He takes his backswing and right before impact he lets it rip, a solid 20 yards to your tee shot right there. Heis the one who came up with it and just like Hogan has a "secret" that is tigers. It is tigers new "explosive" shot!

I think you should send that to GD.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by scripkilla

I agree with keeping your shoulders as fully turned as comfortably possible during the DS. However, as others have pointed out, this is not new at all. There have been publications on this for over 50 years. The late Leslie King of the UK used this concept as the keystone of his swing theory. See also his top followers publications .. "the swing factory".

Here's a quoted paragraph from Leslie King's series of instruction:

******************************************************************
At the top we should have a clear sensation of the potential power in the hands and wrists.... and equally a clear awareness that the hands and wrists are in control of the club.

Now, maintaining the shoulders in the fully turned position, we simply commence the downward swing of the left hand and arm. That is how the downswing starts, and nothing could be simpler!

I stress again, the SHOULDERS MUST REMAIN IN THE FULLY TURNED POSITION at the beginning of the downswing! The same left foot action that has "charged" the hands with power is enabling us to control the shoulders.

By keeping the shoulders fully turned the left hand and arm can swing freely from the left shoulder, taking the club-head down into the ball on a club line that will result in a swing into and along the line of flight through impact.


Hold your shoulders in the fully turned position as the left hand and arm begins to swing down... this ensures good club line through the ball

*******************************************************************

Leslie King is as bad as John Jacobs about preaching #4 Accum throwaway. Swinging the arms down from behind closed shoulders is an illusion which no good player does.

 

[rundmc]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by Biffer

At the top of the backswing, if you have eliminated slack between your shoulders and hips, it's impossible to turn your hips without your shoulders also moving.

Yes, but by holding the right shoulder back, it must move downplane.

Joe,

What is your advice on developing a more dynamic pivot? Also, at what point in the motion do you advise the #4 Accumulator to seek its in-line condition? If #4 doesn't release will the player have the hands "too high" and go over-plane? I've been trying to incubate this.

If you have a 10-F-7 Loop per Mr. K the only cure is Pivot Correction.

thanks!

R

 

[scripkilla]

MJoe, I agree that King's written words here are horrible to imagine. As I read it for the first time, I was like, huh? However, I do think what he meant was for the arms to be dropping down as a result of the slight lateral move then full rotation of the hips. It's just another case of an instructor describing what they "feel" vs. what is really happening in a dynamic swing. I would like to see a person actually try to rotate shoulder fully, then swing the arms straight down...and then only after that had occured, rotate the hips through the shot. That would be UGLY!

 

[shootin4par]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man
I think you should send that to GD.

I did but you know what they told me?
they said that was new info and since it has not been said 10,000 times before they would not use it.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Funny, I always get busted when I say how little these guys know.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by rundmc



What is your advice on developing a more dynamic pivot? Also, at what point in the motion do you advise the #4 Accumulator to seek its in-line condition? If #4 doesn't release will the player have the hands "too high" and go over-plane? I've been trying to incubate this.

If you have a 10-F-7 Loop per Mr. K the only cure is Pivot Correction.

thanks!

R

#4 should be released ONLY by shoulder rotation. The left arm is pinned to the left pec and blasted through impact.

 

[shootin4par]

quote:Originally posted by brianman

Funny, I always get busted when I say how little these guys know.

well that is because either they are right or you are. Their ego wont let them realize there is a better way