The Saucer Pass - Is this legal?

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Ringer

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FWIW, it is a scrape to me. The scrape as others were interpreting it where people just basically pull the ball across the green is also a scrape and in fact both are doing the same thing. Scraping the club along the ground. In the one expressed by the defenders of this stroke the club face would cover the ball thus not allowing the ball to get away from the club. But there is still no difference in what is "scraping". It is still the club-head along the ground.

Scraping "the ball" would have to either be seen as impossible to do with a club, or something that happens each and every time you strike the ball. There is friction after-all and friction is a form of scraping.

So either your definition of "scraping" means we can never make contact with the ball ever because we scrape the ball with our club-faces causing friction.... or you have to take into account that the USGA is not a Lawyers Barr. They might say something they think is clear, yet any lawyer could easily nit-pick a word and get out of it, but it would still cost you a stroke or two in a tournament.
 
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drewitgolf

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If you have a decisions book look at Dec. 14-1/2, 14-1/4 & 14-1/6:

I think he is scraping the ball rather than making a legitimate stroke at it.

That said, the video has been sent to the USGA Rules Dept. for final clarification.
 
mgranato

mgranato

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ggsjpc said:
Nope.

A push has no "backswing".

Just like billiards and this shot.

Now maybe if he started at the ball dragged it back and went through but I doubt it because it still isn't a swing.
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Your definition/qualification of a push is incomplete in my estimation. A push also does not have a hit or collision, this shot does. You can deliver quite a hit with no backswing.
 
Steve Greffen

Steve Greffen

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So if I make a normal backswing but drop it down to the ground around where the guy demonstrates and then drag the club along the ground and then strike the ball is that a scrape or a very fat strike without a divot?

I tried the shot that he demonstrated today with a members club on the putting green and it was not that great (one try) I will try my method tomorrow. Not loving on the technique just curious. Btw I have tried this on my own ages ago as to the benefit and did not find a personal advantage to the technique.
 
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savydan

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When you implied that your billiard shot was a push, I thought it may be fun to play you for a little dough one night at the next GTE. :)
 
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ej20

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A billiard shot is not a push because there is a backstroke and a collision.I think the USGA don't want this type of shot in golf to protect the image and integrity of the game.How would the image of the game look for example if everyone putted side straddle or lied flat on the putting green and used a snooker cue?
 
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ej20

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I think a scrape would be where there is a collision but due to the softness of the shot,the club continues to pull or push the ball towards the target...a sort of double hit.

I think the legality would depend on how hard the shot is hit.Very hard to determine but to be safe,I would not use it.
 
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Hayes9801

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Saucer Pass

Is it too late to revisit this thread? If not, the recent Big Break show has brought this to my attention. Does anyone know if there has there ever been a ruling on this motion?

The relevant USGA decision that I found says that the club must be swung. If the club is not swung, it is by USGA definitions a "push, spoon or scrape."

To me it looks like a golfer using the saucer pass is scraping the club along the ground and not swinging it through the air as he would with a driver or even a putter.
 
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Hayes9801

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I suspect you're right about Isaac. He doesn't have the pedigree that Brian and Mark have, but I think he has gambler/huster nerves. He won't be needing to drag his wedge along the ground to chip a ball onto a green!;)
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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Hayes9801 said:
I suspect you're right about Isaac. He doesn't have the pedigree that Brian and Mark have, but I think he has gambler/huster nerves. He won't be needing to drag his wedge along the ground to chip a ball onto a green!;)
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If James makes it to the final two, where I think it'd be an 18-hole match, I'd put all my money on him. Im biased, since he's local, but the guy has incredible game (I think he once shot 59 using borrowed golf clubs).
Off the top of my head, he's won: NCAA Individual Championship, 3 x BC Amateur Championships, a Pacific Northwest Amateur (by 8 or 9 shots), two Canadian Tour events (one as an amateur), etc.
 
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DCgolf

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Wow. I knew a guy once who could double hit a chip into the hole like every 4th or 5th try. Saw him win money with it a lot. But this guy is just as good!
 
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whisper

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Hayes9801 said:
Is it too late to revisit this thread? If not, the recent Big Break show has brought this to my attention. Does anyone know if there has there ever been a ruling on this motion?

The relevant USGA decision that I found says that the club must be swung. If the club is not swung, it is by USGA definitions a "push, spoon or scrape."

To me it looks like a golfer using the saucer pass is scraping the club along the ground and not swinging it through the air as he would with a driver or even a putter.
Click to expand...

As MGranato pointed out, the ball is not pushed, spooned, or scraped. The ground is.
The post here:

Kikkor Golf // James Lepp Blog // How did things get so Saucy?

suggests that it both legal and has been put in tournament play.
 
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