The Soft Draw Pattern

[Shot Limit]

I’ve been experimenting with the SD pattern. It may or may not be for me, that fact remains to be seen. It does seem to be a very good pattern for a golfer to strive to accomplish. I have some questions involving the toss; in particular the timing of the toss and how it differs from say a 9iron to a 3iron. I have only had 3 range sessions of experience with the pattern and have had some good results with all the clubs getting the shot shape the pattern is designed for. I have also had some undesirable results like shots that start right and fade even further right. I’m interested in finding out what the most likely causes for these bad shots are. I realize that the clubface must be open and I feel like this may be a result of an improperly executed toss and possibly dragging the handle too far to the left.

For the experts and other forum members who have had experiences with the SDP, what are some of the things you gone through that have helped to execute the pattern successfully? What are the keys to a successful toss throughout the bag?

Thanks a bunch in advance.

 

[jenhaoyen]

I’ve been experimenting with the SD pattern. It may or may not be for me, that fact remains to be seen. It does seem to be a very good pattern for a golfer to strive to accomplish. I have some questions involving the toss; in particular the timing of the toss and how it differs from say a 9iron to a 3iron. I have only had 3 range sessions of experience with the pattern and have had some good results with all the clubs getting the shot shape the pattern is designed for. I have also had some undesirable results like shots that start right and fade even further right. I’m interested in finding out what the most likely causes for these bad shots are. I realize that the clubface must be open and I feel like this may be a result of an improperly executed toss and possibly dragging the handle too far to the left.

For the experts and other forum members who have had experiences with the SDP, what are some of the things you gone through that have helped to execute the pattern successfully? What are the keys to a successful toss throughout the bag?

Thanks a bunch in advance.

It's...very difficult for me to switch from CFF + NSA to the toss......
Do i swivel...do i not swivel.....dunno dude?'

The more left I want to swing the more laid off on my downswing. This forum helped me a lot on the concept of golf swings and improved a lot on my short game. When I look at the video my hands are wayyy to forward which causes the club face to be opened for too long before at impact. I wish I can understand how to toss correctly too.

 

[curtisj76]

I would have to say "the toss" has probably generated the most questions in regards to SD. Drag the handle and you are toast.

PS Have you ever seen Brian? I envy you.

 

[Shot Limit]

Thanks for chiming in guys. I have to agree, the toss is somewhat of a challenge. Not so much the idea of what the toss does, that seems pretty simple to understand and Brian does a good job of explaining it in SD. I think the thing I have a problem with is when to do it. I feel the timing of the toss is pretty critical for it to be successful. So I went to the range today and to me it seemed as though I needed to toss it sooner for the longer clubs than for the shorter clubs. I had mixed results today but I guess that is to be expected because I’ve only been working on it since last Wednesday. I hit everything from fades to strait shots and soft draws to some pretty big hooks. I realize it may be difficult to get an idea of what’s going on in a specific swing with such general questions since swings are so personal but I’ll take any information I can get.

Curtis, I have had two lessons with Brian but at the time I was having fits with bps and hitting low nasty hooks so we mainly worked on hitting fades. I really learned a lot of good things from BManz; he’s a great teacher. I feel like maybe I’m ready to start moving more towards the middle, towards what Brian calls more orthodox and I really wanted to give SD a try after reading all the reviews. So here I am, hopefully on the way to some good golf.

Thanks again guys, I appreciate the help and hopefully we can all learn something from this thread.

 

[Shot Limit]

I guess I can figure this out on my own. Going to the range today after work to try a few things with the toss and snapping the chain.

 

[niblick1]

I have been watching SD again and working on more of a toss release and less a drag the handle move. For what it's worth, I find watching Geoff Ogilvy on video gets me visualizing the move before I practice. I'm not sure that's really what he is doing but that mental picture works for me.

 

[Shot Limit]

I agree on the Geoff Ogilvy idea. I just need to figure out how to get some power with the toss release. I do tend to drag the handle a bit left, it seems I get a better chain snap that way although it does feel a little OTT on the DS. When SD is working well it's a cool pattern, it just feels a little more armsy than I'm used to.

Thanks nib.

 

[niblick1]

I agree on the Geoff Ogilvy idea. I just need to figure out how to get some power with the toss release. I do tend to drag the handle a bit left, it seems I get a better chain snap that way although it does feel a little OTT on the DS. When SD is working well it's a cool pattern, it just feels a little more armsy than I'm used to.

Thanks nib.

It feels bizarrely armsy to me, too, but then by last summer I was dragging the club way left, not using much right arm and had lost a ton of distance and was cutting everything.

 

[vjsinger]

Did you guys have to re-check the left hand grip, making sure it was a little stronger in this pattern? IMO, that's REALLY important. I sometimes drag the handle left when hitting half way back pitch shots, and found that my left hand gets a little weak and in an effort to "square the club" I drag the handle with the weak grip. I fix that and then it doesn't feel quite so odd. I feel like I can use a ton of pivot and throw with the right arm and whole side..just a thought.

 

[niblick1]

Did you guys have to re-check the left hand grip, making sure it was a little stronger in this pattern? IMO, that's REALLY important. I sometimes drag the handle left when hitting half way back pitch shots, and found that my left hand gets a little weak and in an effort to "square the club" I drag the handle with the weak grip. I fix that and then it doesn't feel quite so odd. I feel like I can use a ton of pivot and throw with the right arm and whole side..just a thought.

Definitely. My grip was extremely weak last summer and too much in the palm, too. Another thing I found very helpful were comments from Jim K. here about paying attention to where the left thumb is at the top of the backswing.

 

[crkranz]

Definitely. My grip was extremely weak last summer and too much in the palm, too. Another thing I found very helpful were comments from Jim K. here about paying attention to where the left thumb is at the top of the backswing.

Where should the thumb be?

 

[Shot Limit]

Where should the thumb be?

Under the club.

 

[niblick1]

Where should the thumb be?

I think of left thumb being more under grip at top of backswing and pointing at target for my target line. The same target as for the "one last point."

 

[Shot Limit]

Definitely. My grip was extremely weak last summer and too much in the palm, too. Another thing I found very helpful were comments from Jim K. here about paying attention to where the left thumb is at the top of the backswing.

I'm thinking the top of the BS is pretty critical also niblick. I really have trouble thinking of the right hand/arm on the DS even though I'm right handed. I have always felt more left arm oriented with my golf swing, especially now since I've been hitting a fades for several months. Don't get me wrong I have had some success with it, it just doesn't feel great (not yet).

 

[niblick1]

I'm thinking the top of the BS is pretty critical also niblick. I really have trouble thinking of the right hand/arm on the DS even though I'm right handed. I have always felt more left arm oriented with my golf swing, especially now since I've been hitting a fades for several months. Odd.

I have had the exact same issue, but it became a big problem for me. Goes back to this pattern I got into last year of pulling way left with the arm by dragging the handle (goes back to my convoluted ideas of being a swinger vs. a hitter, I think) and applying most of my downswing force with my left hand with a very passive right hand. I did it by keeping my left arm very rigid and applying way too little right hand power too late and swinging way left. I have found that working on keeping my left hand grip firm but trying to really, really relax my left arm and use only my right hand to keep the left arm relatively taut (apply extensor force) helps a lot. I try to just think of my left arm as a rope to use that old analogy of how proper extensor action works. I have to exaggerate that feel to get more right hand/right arm action for now. But every once in a while I get it right and the ball goes much farther than it was going last year and the super-high spinny moonball cuts are now mostly gone (I was embedding balls in greens last year). There's something comforting for me about hitting fades into greens, but if you end up needing a 6-iron from 155 and hitting moonballs you know you've gone too far with that left arm dominant stuff! I'm using more of a SD approach to just get back to straight (not play a draw) -- I practice hitting draws on the range but my natural tendency moves my shots back closer to straight on the course (so far).

 

[Shot Limit]

I have had the exact same issue, but it became a big problem for me. Goes back to this pattern I got into last year of pulling way left with the arm by dragging the handle (goes back to my convoluted ideas of being a swinger vs. a hitter, I think) and applying most of my downswing force with my left hand with a very passive right hand. I did it by keeping my left arm very rigid and applying way too little right hand power too late and swinging way left. I have found that working on keeping my left hand grip firm but trying to really, really relax my left arm and use only my right hand to keep the left arm relatively taut (apply extensor force) helps a lot. I try to just think of my left arm as a rope to use that old analogy of how proper extensor action works. I have to exaggerate that feel to get more right hand/right arm action for now. But every once in a while I get it right and the ball goes much farther than it was going last year and the super-high spinny moonball cuts are now mostly gone (I was embedding balls in greens last year). There's something comforting for me about hitting fades into greens, but if you end up needing a 6-iron from 155 and hitting moonballs you know you've gone too far with that left arm dominant stuff! I'm using more of a SD approach to just get back to straight (not play a draw) -- I practice hitting draws on the range but my natural tendency moves my shots back closer to straight on the course (so far).

We're alot alike niblick. I feel alot more comfortable hitting a fade too, I feel like I can really snap my chain better. I didn't really experience a loss in distance but the fades started to grow larger so yeah, I got SD to work on a straighter ball flight. I think today I may try to integrate some of SD with what I was doing before. I'm having a slight problem getting the club to point right of the target before and after the toss so I might need to work on slowing down the pivot or some type of pivot breaking. IDK.

 

[niblick1]

I'm having a slight problem getting the club to point right of the target before and after the toss so I might need to work on slowing down the pivot or some type of pivot breaking. IDK.

Ditto for me. Same problem.

And of course, now "just right of the target" might be just a little left of the target based on d-plane. Good luck.

 

[Shot Limit]

You too. I'll be back on tonight after the range.

 

[Shot Limit]

Hit the ball pretty damn decent over the weekend. Felt as though I was controlling the toss with pivot braking/slowing which is something I have'nt done before. I was using more lower body action and less upper. My leg and hips were actually a little sore after my round on Saturday, that's a first for me. Definitly making a little bit of progress, so far so good.