Thin divot problem and compressing the ball

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Jim Kobylinski

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I think my divots are too thin. I have really learned a lot about the swing in the past few months and am steadily improving. I have really learned to "trust" my swing and just pivot hard with my body for a hard swing HOWEVER i don't always do it due to not always needing the extra distance. For instance i hit a 9 iron around 140 but i can get it to go 150 with a hard pivot.

Lately my miss is either a push or a thinned shot or even a topped shot. I think i have a problem standing up during the downswing. Any ideas of what i'm doing or what i can do to fix it?

Please feel free to ask me questions as to help with fixing this. Thanks again. Also can dry fairways add to the thin divot problem? Sometimes when i hit it correct the ground is so hard that the club almost gets stuck in the ground and my right wrist gets pushed off the club before i make my follow through. Does this make sense?

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Also i was playing with someone this weekend who didn't have a very nice looking swing, it was OK but man could be compress the ball. You could easily hear the zip and watch it bullet off the ground for about 5 feet and then rise. He could really bang the ball there too...260 yard 5 woods not too mention some a 200 yard 5 iron at the 18th par 3. How can i learn to compress the ball that well?
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Don't know...don't have my swing on video Archie. My "hard pivot" is really just me creating more hip speed than on other swings i think.
 
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Dr_J

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for me, an image that helped is when Brian said to TRY to hit the ball at the highest possible point on the clubface. Or I just TRY to drive the ball in the ground right where it is at, just try to bury it a foot into the ground. I have never been able to do it, and the ball has been flying great!
 
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Archie Swivel

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I had the same symptoms as you (doesn't mean the same cause). Part of the cure for me that Brian helped me with was to keep my right hip from shifting away from the target on the backswing. I had been focusing so much on pivoting around my spine at the base of my neck that I forgot to think about what my lower spine in my tailbone was doing. I have been trying to maintain a real strong hip turn on the backswing while maintaing the angle of my left leg (not necessarily the flex) and actually thinking of my tailbone shifting a centimeter TOWARD the target. Try your pivot with that in mind.
 
bts

bts

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quote:Originally posted by Dr_J

for me, an image that helped is when Brian said to TRY to hit the ball at the highest possible point on the clubface. Or I just TRY to drive the ball in the ground right where it is at, just try to bury it a foot into the ground. I have never been able to do it, and the ball has been flying great!
Click to expand...
What a million-dollar tip, which also demonstrates how "intention" dictates action/motion!
 
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DivotDelight

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quote:Originally posted by Archie Swivel

I had the same symptoms as you (doesn't mean the same cause). Part of the cure for me that Brian helped me with was to keep my right hip from shifting away from the target on the backswing. I had been focusing so much on pivoting around my spine at the base of my neck that I forgot to think about what my lower spine in my tailbone was doing. I have been trying to maintain a real strong hip turn on the backswing while maintaing the angle of my left leg (not necessarily the flex) and actually thinking of my tailbone shifting a centimeter TOWARD the target. Try your pivot with that in mind.
Click to expand...

Archie. Are you a lefty?
 
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Archie Swivel

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The Archman is right-handed. My quote above is the second best piece of advice I personally got from Brian-- the first was what my right elbow is supposed to do on the backswing.

Bare in mind that advice that I get from Brian is specific from one-on-one instruction from him. It may not apply to others. My comments on this forum are all based on what I glean from MY lessons and I have not received TGM book in the mail yet. But I do take what he gives me to the range (like a large bucket worth per day) and from time to time develop my own way of relaying my thoughts. Since you guys don't know my credentials, I thought it best that I explain that I'm just an apprentice!

Also, made my daily visit to the range today and obtained 'lag' for the first time ever. The 'throwing the dart at the aft quadrant' analogy was fantastic. Fifty balls and Fifty divots- literally-- only problem was that some were too deep.

QUESTION: Why would my first successful experimentation with lag result in some too long and deep divots?
 
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Whiteflash

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'throwing the dart at the aft quadrant'

Please expound on this idea. With what do you throw the dart with? Right hand,left hand, clubhead etcc.. Please give some detail on this.

Did Brian give you this thought? I to have taken a lesson from Brian and came away impressed(only 1 hour though,need to go back).

Thanks for your time.

Brian
 
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Archie Swivel

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Brian,

I think Mizuno Joe said "The best mental imagery that I have found is that of imagining the club as a large dart, and that the objective is to pull the dart DOWN and through the inside corner of the ball. The clubhead is the feathered end and passes through the ball only after the point(butt of the grip) does. I agree that a certain softness is required especially in the right forearm and the left(cocked) wrist. A frozen, bent, level right wrist is required. The crucial thing is that the effort to pierce the ball must continue until the anatomical limitations cause the snap release, and even then the effort must continue. The tendency is for the subconcious to panic and "do something" before the motion is complete. The effort must be DOWN on plane and there must ne NO TARGETWARD effort"
 
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Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
Well i played today and most of my divots were pretty good actually. I think before the fairways were just too hard and not watered enough, hence the thinner divots and my hand coming off. I played today after it rained last night and everything seemed to be ok.

However i still need to learn how to get that "zip" out of the ball. I was reading through Chuck Evans E-book last night and i remember a drill in there saying put a bench about 6 feet in front of you and try and hit 7 irons that fly under it before it rises. Wow, i can only imagine that one. I was able to get one good iron to give me that "zip" sound. I was hitting into a pretty stiff wind and had about 120 yards to the pin and figured i'd hit a PW but i went short. Since i was alone i dropped another ball and really tried to hit hard down into the ball and i heard it "zip" or "sizzle" and it went low and then up and dropped nice. I'd say if there was no wind i wouldn't hit that PW a good 140-145 if no wind. That is far for me
 
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MizunoJoe

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Thanks Brian, I would have never thought of this imagery if not for TGM and the concepts of straight line delivery path - 10-23-A and drag loading - 10-19-C. Outside of the TGM world, NO ONE to my knowledge has ever mentioned the idea of "straight line delivery path".

By the way, what is the short cut that instructors take that causes them to teach less lag?
 
goodgolf57

goodgolf57

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Mizuno,


I trust your dart imagery works awesome for you, but I suspect that you are a very good athlete that already had many sound swing fundamentals in place prior to using your imagery. For someone less athletically gifted, this concept may be quite difficult to execute and lead to shanking. I know because I tried it and I’m a 7 handicap and I’ve read TGM 3 times. I’m better with more of a sweeping release. I’m not trying to rain on your parade; I just want to serve warning to some others out there looking for golf’s holy grail.

Respectfully,


GG57
 
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Tball88

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The dart tip does sound good. I have it simplified to the point all I try to visualize an angled club at impact / looking at a right handed golfer. Lag is a great thing, nothing better than that "zip" sound. No better feeling in the world than a purely struck golf ball.
 
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MizunoJoe

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goodgolf,

Your subconscious is trying to "bail you out" of what it perceives as a disaster about to happen. You're probably tensing up with your right arm/shoulder before the auto snap release, or doing a "panic hand flip". It doesn't take athleticism to acquire this skill or "flair". Average guys with ordinary hand speed CAN do this.
 
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lagster

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MizunoJoe,

Your analysis... that obtaining maxumum trigger delay(or something in the ball park), and lag... is a psychological, or fear related thing is very interesting. It sounds like you think that some golfers have a subconscious fear that they may not even hit the ball if they get anywhere near the maximum trigger delay position.

This makes sense to me. It's kind of like a survival instinct. To survive... means to at least make contact with the ball.

They probably have to get into what feels like an outrageous place from their current survival place, so they just won't go there.

What have you found can overcome this fear, or what ever it is? Do you think hitting into a net first may help, i.e., less consequence for failure when learning?

I have also noticed that most of the good lagers are on on a fairly shallow downswing plane. This seems to go along with lag in most cases. (Elbow--downswing plane, for example)
 
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MizunoJoe

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lagster,

You pretty well summed it up.

How to overcome the subconscious? Go to the far RIGHT side of the range and MAKE yourself do it. Prepare to fail at first and disregard bad results, in fact expect it, so you will be tension free. I wouldn't use a net - do the real deal. It's a matter of will power.
 
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Archie Swivel

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For ME, I could not achieve the concept of 'lag' or this dart analogy until I had a basic foundation of TGM fundamentals. I needed the classic neutral grip, but still couldn't do it. Then I fixed my reverse pivot, but still could not do it. Then I started working on getting my left wrist flat at the top and my right wrist bent, but still couldn't do it. Finally, when I got my right elbow in place on the backswing I started to hit better than ever. Then yesterday I had my first successful attempt at 'pulling the dart.' It was an epiphany for me. My point is that you can't arbitrarily choose swing concepts to implement in a vacuum. You need to lay the proper foundation. Brian was able to not only tell me what to do, but he got me to do it in the proper sequence. Thanks again Brian, by the way.

ArchMan
 
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