tiger and Haney NY Times

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Brian Manzella

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This is the STUPIDist idea in golf instruction history.

For Cripes sake, the damn toe down effect at impact kills this BS dead in the water.

Not only that, but it has NEVER EVER BEEN PROVEN TO EVER OCCUR! even once.
 
Maybe as a swing thought that works, but it is something that is physically impossible to achieve? Wouldn't that make it a pretty good swing thought? I know plenty of guys that play good golf with that idea.
 

Steve Khatib

Super Moderator
I am a master clubfitter(what ever that counts for) and I will tell you point blank that the centrifugal forces combined with the toe down boeing effect combined with the club length and plane shift employed affect lie angle(and many more factors also) not the position golf garbage in this piece.
This junk is just so misleading and unethical jornalism, delagg him because he is stuck, stuck is steering not not delagging I hate that stuck idea because every golf pro talks about it in my neck of the woods I spend my days debunking this illusion.
Cant wait to show my mates this article for a laugh!
 
quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN


This junk is just so misleading and unethical jornalism,

How is this unethical journalism?? It is a feature piece in a general publication that relied on three well respected instructors- Haney, Spearman and Kestner for information. You can't blame the reporter for not know his TGM.
 
4 Barrels, already back in action in Oz. Do you guys realize that this guy just flew back from Ca and probably went to an internet kiosk at the airport to check in with you all?
Anyway, the one-plane mis-speak is pretty stupid, but there have been plenty of other stupid ideas that make teachers a lot of money.
How about trying to straighten the right arm from the top? How about trying to quiet the body or matching arm speed and turning speed? And so many more pearls out there.
And what the hell were they thinking about saying Hogan used One Plane when his most basic idea was the shift to the elbow plane?
Ach!
Welcome home, 4 Barrels
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

This is the STUPIDist idea in golf instruction history.

For Cripes sake, the damn toe down effect at impact kills this BS dead in the water.
Not only that, but it has NEVER EVER BEN PROVEN TO EVER OCCUR! even once.

Brian, where does it say toe down in this article? Explain what your saying about toe down? Please, you are not saying Tiger is washed up doing this are you. ;)
 
quote:Originally posted by billmckinneygolf

How about trying to quiet the body or matching arm speed and turning speed? And so many more pearls out there.

Please explain why you think that's bad. I'm sure you would agree that there are a lot of hackers out there spinning their hips way too soon in the downswing. Maybe you're trying to say that the method these teachers uses to correct this faulty synchronization of the body and arms is bad?
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
The shaft WILL NOT BE on the same angle at impact as address becuase the clubhead moves to toe-down about 3-5 degrees as CF trries to line everything up.

Therefore if the grip were in the EXACT same place at impact as address, you'd stick the club in the ground behind the ball.

PERIOD. Next.
 
quote:Originally posted by brianman

The shaft WILL NOT BE on the same angle at impact as address becuase the clubhead moves to toe-down about 3-5 degrees as CF trries to line everything up.

Therefore if the grip were in the EXACT same place at impact as address, you'd stick the club in the ground behind the ball.

PERIOD. Next.

where did they talk about address in this article?
 

jeffy

Banned
It's interesting to me, but not surprising, that Tiger's article in the December Golf Digest contradict's the caption on the illustration in the NY Times article that describes Tiger's "Getting Stuck": "Woods's arms and hands lagged too far behind his lower body on the downswing". In the GD artcle, Tiger admits that "dropping the club inside on the downswing" was the resaon he got stuck; in other words, forcing his right elbow in front of the body caused the clubhead to lag too open. The solution: not "aligning his left arm and the angle of his shoulders" as the NY Times says, but: "now I focus on rotating my right forearm down and into my right side", accompanied by an illustration showing his right elbow resting on the side of his hip (not in front) well into the downswing. This is the same solution, by the way, that Hardy believes Hogan used to get unstuck that Jim discusses in his 2004 PGA Teaching Summit presentation.
 
There is a relationship between club angle at address and swing plane, but it certainly is not absolute.
This article makes some good points, but the problem of over simplification, ruins it.

Consider Moe Norman's supposedly one plane swing. Strictly speaking it is not one plane, but it is closer to one plane than just about any other swing. So if you call it a one swing plane, that's ok with me.

I got attacked for calling it a one swing plane some time back..It just depends on one's definitions. Homer Kelley and many here refer to centrifugal force, but it's an oversimplification.

Is a baseball pitch at 110 mph really fast? Well, compare it bullet fired from a rifle. It just depends on one's definitions/reference.
 
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