Tiger questions (not bashings)

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bcoak

bcoak

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1. It has been said that Foley takes some ST components. Read something by a trainer in Golfworld saying that it looks like Tiger is putting more strain on his left knee with this swing as he has more weight on his left leg and driving his hips, producing stress on the knee. Thoughts?
2. On Friday, he hit a big snap hook into the trees. Not sure if this means anything, but his tee flew way right. Is this a result of what Brian said of the 10* inside out?
3. Low hands. Tiger has played his whole life standing tall and making a big turn. He know looks scrunched with very low hands. This seems very drastic. What is Foley trying to do w/ the low hands?
 
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rogerdodger

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No. 3 is really noticeable. The comparison to his swing and DL111 was interesting. Tiger swings like a guy 5'8''. Maybe he is channeling Hubert Green.
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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The "low hands" is the biggest problem with the pattern. It forces Tiger to raise his torso approaching impact to make room for the alignment of the shaft to to the right forearm. See, Hunter Mahan can get real close to the ball at address without this problem because his shoulders rotate into a well open position at impact. This moves the left shoulder farther from the ball, pulling the clubhead closer to the player, and requires a different distance from the ball than a player without as much torso rotation into impact. Tiger has NEVER had much torso rotation into impact. His shoulders are nearly sqaure at impact. I don't see any reason why he should start trying to rotate into impact more now, based on his past success. So, he desparately needs the freedom to get far enough from the ball at address to prevent this wacky "bobbing for apples" move he's developed. Besides, if its truly a flatter hand circle/plane that Foley wants, then setting the arms flatter at address promotes this. Foley's all about keeping the hands on the circle as long as possible. Fine. But so what if the bottom of the circle is farther from you?
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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bcoak said:
1. It has been said that Foley takes some ST components. Read something by a trainer in Golfworld saying that it looks like Tiger is putting more strain on his left knee with this swing as he has more weight on his left leg and driving his hips, producing stress on the knee. Thoughts?
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I don't see anything in Foley's swing that puts strain on the left knee...or the S&T swing that puts strain on the knee. I'm not an orthopedist, but that's just what I think.

It's a bit ridiculous because his surgery occured when he was working with Haney. And I don't blame Haney for the knee problems either. Furthermore, anybody who knows anything about torn ACL's is that you are now more likely to re-injure the knee than you are to not re-injure the knee once that ACL is torn. It's kinda funny to me because I think most sports fans perfectly realize that, except when it comes to Tiger.


2. On Friday, he hit a big snap hook into the trees. Not sure if this means anything, but his tee flew way right. Is this a result of what Brian said of the 10* inside out?
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If he hit a snap...his face was probably closed by at least 2* or so. The path could probably be well out to the right as well. But the snap is more of a face closing problem from what I've observed working with Trackman.

I saw his swings on the range at the PGA and he looked like his driver was still well out to the right. I know he's been working on hitting up with the driver which means you have to get the swing direction out to the right so the path will square up. He may not have been getting enough of an upward attack angle and thus the path was going dead right.


3. Low hands. Tiger has played his whole life standing tall and making a big turn. He know looks scrunched with very low hands. This seems very drastic. What is Foley trying to do w/ the low hands?
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Probably trying to get him out of using the 'flat spine' and 'chin up' address position. If that's the case, I wholeheartedly agree with that decision. The spine isn't flat, so trying to make it flat is potentially un-safe. And it will hurt shoulder turn which can mess up a bunch of things. Take a look at Nicklaus at address.

14046.jpg


It's the same way with all of the guys before the 1990's. Were those guys wrong? I don't think so.

The low hands I really didn't notice. I did notice him standing further away from the ball. I had more of an issue with his path going well out to the right on video than anything else.






3JACK
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Huge difference in the amount of shoulder rotation at impact..........the main reason that Tiger Woods can't swing like Hunter Mahan.

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nrggolf

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Todd you know far more about golf instruction than I do but comparing Mahan with what looks to be a 6 or 7iron to Tiger using a driver isn't a great analogy is it? Don't you have to have more shoulder rotation on the iron shot than the wood to make the ball go straight?
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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nrggolf said:
Todd you know far more about golf instruction than I do but comparing Mahan with what looks to be a 6 or 7iron to Tiger using a driver isn't a great analogy is it? Don't you have to have more shoulder rotation on the iron shot than the wood to make the ball go straight?
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That's correct. I can be wide open on a PW at impact versus a 3-iron, too.

Plus, that was a desert pic of Woods when he wasn't swinging as well. I think Tiger *can* do it, just struggling to do it at the moment.




3JACK
 
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ej20

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Todd is correct in this case in my opinion.Tiger doesn't "clear" his shoulders anywhere near as well as Mahan.Tiger has always complained of being "stuck".His stuck has always been the failure to get his shoulders open at imapct.Apart from his hips,he's not a very rotational player.

Look at how massively open Mahan's shoulders are at impact.More open than with an iron.

Hunter Mahan DTL Driver BMW - YouTube
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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Todd Dugan said:
Yeah. And the comparison is nearly identical. It's not a small difference.
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Pause the video in the post above yours Todd (everyone else should do the same). It shows Mahan in a completely different position than Tiger in that still with the driver. Now, who's to say that more open shoulders is THE fix for Tiger. Just shows that they are in completely different positions.
 
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ej20

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faux_maestro said:
Pause the video in the post above yours Todd (everyone else should do the same). It shows Mahan in a completely different position than Tiger in that still with the driver. Now, who's to say that more open shoulders is THE fix for Tiger. Just shows that they are in completely different positions.
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It's only an opinion.Who can say for certain what will help Tiger?

I base it purely on the observation that most good players are open at impact.Tiger has a problem swinging too much to the right,especially with the driver.More open shoulders will have him swinging more left.I would say he's currently trying to swing more left with his hands and that spells inconsistency.
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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ej20 said:
It's only an opinion.Who can say for certain what will help Tiger?

I base it purely on the observation that most good players are open at impact.Tiger has a problem swinging too much to the right,especially with the driver.More open shoulders will have him swinging more left.I would say he's currently trying to swing more left with his hands and that spells inconsistency.
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I agree. Maybe one of a few things he needs to fix (cough cough short game cough).
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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faux_maestro said:
Pause the video in the post above yours Todd (everyone else should do the same). It shows Mahan in a completely different position than Tiger in that still with the driver. Now, who's to say that more open shoulders is THE fix for Tiger. Just shows that they are in completely different positions.
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Correct, maestro. Contrary to previous comments, players will exhibit MORE shoulder rotation at impact with a driver, not less. Ultimately, Tiger's sweet spot is further from his core at impact than Hunter's is........requiring Tiger to "measure" himself differently to the ball at address than Hunter.
 
K

Kevin Shields

Super Moderator
I didnt say it was wrong or right, for the record. I just wanted some pics of the same club. I doubt Tiger can draw his left arm across his chest making it difficult to even try to get his shoulders open.
 
faux_maestro

faux_maestro

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Kevin Shields said:
I didnt say it was wrong or right, for the record. I just wanted some pics of the same club. I doubt Tiger can draw his left arm across his chest making it difficult to even try to get his shoulders open.
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Which would mean trying to get into Mahan's positions wouldn't work. I got the feeling earlier this year Tiger was trying to copy Mahan's swing but now not so much.

I still think Tiger will figure it out, a lot of people don't think so. It may mean a different coach, it may not. Personally, I like his range swing better than his on course swing but I felt that way when he was with Haney too.
 
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DCgolf

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Mahan has always stayed on the ball, and is very comfortable opening from there. Tiger always had the big move off the ball and because of it his sensations are still to slide laterally quite a bit, increasing axis and swinging inside out. That's where he's struggling I think. Trying to stay on the ball then sliding past it, can't get open so can't go left. So tough for him to swing left it seems.
 
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