tiger, why?

[shootin4par]

many people think tiger is the ideal model for todays swing. How can the man hit 17 greens one day and shoot +3 the next day. He still got 10 greens but only hit 3 out of his first ten, he must have a major flaw to be doing this kind of stuff, I dont know what do you guys think?

 

[Jared Willerson]

I think everyone has bad days, he was fortunate to break 75.

Goes to show the immense talent the guy has.

 

[Ringer]

Sure was interesting to watch him hit a duck hook into the water this week.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I think everyone has bad days, he was fortunate to break 75.

Goes to show the immense talent the guy has.

What? It goes to show he has talent because he broke 75? A lot of guys can do that. What it shows is that he's human, even the best in the world can lose it in the middle of a tournament. That's a distinguishing factor about golf than other sports, it's so much harder to play at the same high level every day. Even Rocco Mediate who had a great week lost his game on Saturday, he found it again today though, nice bounce back.

 

[Bigwill]

What? It goes to show he has talent because he broke 75? A lot of guys can do that. What it shows is that he's human, even the best in the world can lose it in the middle of a tournament. That's a distinguishing factor about golf than other sports, it's so much harder to play at the same high level every day. Even Rocco Mediate who had a great week lost his game on Saturday, he found it again today though, nice bounce back.

I think what he meant was that his talent allowed him to shoot a much better score than he would have otherwise, considering how he was hitting it.

 

[Jared Willerson]

Thanks bigwill, that is exactly what I meant. geez Chris, surely you can see that.

 

[shootin4par]

today, 3 under on the front 8 over on the back. what are the big holes in his swing that cause this?

 

[Chris Sturgess]

I think what he meant was that his talent allowed him to shoot a much better score than he would have otherwise, considering how he was hitting it.

Not a big deal or anything but people say this cliche all the time and it actually makes zero sense. If his talent level is so high while playing this round then he wouldn't be over par to begin with. Where was his talent when he was hitting bad shots. Obviously I'm not saying that Tiger isn't ridiculously talented but when he plays bad he should be held accountable, instead of cuddley Jim Nantz style rhetoric about how talented he is. It's not like he played bad because of bad bounces or bad luck, he played bad because of his own lack of ability that day.

 

[Bigwill]

I understand what you're saying. And you're right; he should be held accountable. Nobody's saying he shouldn't. He hit it terrible, and my guess is that he'd be the first to tell you that. I think the point of the "cliche" is that he has the talent to shoot scores that most of us wouldn't be able to if we hit it that badly. One dosen't have to negate the other, does it?

 

[Jared Willerson]

The guy hit it bad; still broke 75; even though he hit it bad he still knows how to play golf and is prepared to compete "ugly"

I am not taking up for him or being cudly, but with the shots he hit that day most everyone else on the pga tour would have been 78 or higher.

The difference..........Tiger's innate ability to play golf, even with a "bad" swing; otherwise known as "talent".

I hope that better explains my statement.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

He was held accountable, he even said himself that it was "pathetic" how he played. He did what all pro's do when they "don't have it," they grind.

 

[golfbulldog]

He was held accountable, he even said himself that it was "pathetic" how he played. He did what all pro's do when they "don't have it," they grind.

Not many other US participating sports where you get to see someone "grind" ( i think... surely hockey, baseball and football they get substituted or struck out or whatever...)

But in UK, with our ultimate test of cricket being 5 day long "test matches", we get to see some batsmen/batters play badly for for up to a 6-8 hours and it is a real test of patience... they know they are not playing well so they just grind it out... avoiding stupid stuff...knowing that with time their timing will return and they start to play well... they "play themselves in"...actually wonderful thing for an interested spectator to see somebody grind like that... petulant round of 82 means missed cut and no chance... lot of respect for his grinding ability... fascinating to watch too...far more interesting than normal... ( no smilie because this is actually quite sincere!!)...

 

[FloydPT38]

He has something Physical going on - a tight/tender muscle or joint somewhere perhaps the scapula that bothered him a couple of years ago or his knee. Something. He'll probably work it out with a few days rest and some range work. But he will be working out a physical problem (he may not even know it)

The significance of aches and pain are grossly underestimated with the golf swing.

Floyd

 

[self-mastery]

Not many other US participating sports where you get to see someone "grind" ( i think... surely hockey, baseball and football they get substituted or struck out or whatever...)

But in UK, with our ultimate test of cricket being 5 day long "test matches", we get to see some batsmen/batters play badly for for up to a 6-8 hours and it is a real test of patience... they know they are not playing well so they just grind it out... avoiding stupid stuff...knowing that with time their timing will return and they start to play well... they "play themselves in"...actually wonderful thing for an interested spectator to see somebody grind like that... petulant round of 82 means missed cut and no chance... lot of respect for his grinding ability... fascinating to watch too...far more interesting than normal... ( no smilie because this is actually quite sincere!!)...

I think that poker is the ultimate grinders game.

 

[golfbulldog]

I think that poker is the ultimate grinders game.

i don't play poker but i think that the element of luck in poker takes away some of the "beauty" of a talented player grinding through with determination, keeping himself in the battle, waiting for talent to "click" so that they can press on for victory.... keeping yourself in the game so that you have the opportunity to find form seems different to waiting for lady luck...

"can't score runs back in the pavillion" ( read dugout or something like that for baseball equivalent)

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

i don't play poker but i think that the element of luck in poker takes away some of the "beauty" of a talented player grinding through with determination, keeping himself in the battle, waiting for talent to "click" so that they can press on for victory.... keeping yourself in the game so that you have the opportunity to find form seems different to waiting for lady luck...

"can't score runs back in the pavillion" ( read dugout or something like that for baseball equivalent)

There is a lot more luck involved in golf than there is in poker. The guys at the top of their game in Poker are usually working with statistical odds to bet with. Now they can either be analysts like who would actually work them out or memorize them or they simply know from playing years and years what the odds are.

I would agree that Poker is a real grinder's game (at it's highest level).

EDIT:

I would just like to stress AGAIN, there really isn't that much luck involved in poker and the amount that there is, is less than in golf. There's a reason why the same set of guys are always at that last table at the World Series of Poker.

 

[golfbulldog]

There is a lot more luck involved in golf than there is in poker. The guys at the top of their game in Poker are usually working with statistical odds to bet with. Now they can either be analysts like who would actually work them out or memorize them or they simply know from playing years and years what the odds are.

I would agree that Poker is a real grinder's game (at it's highest level).

EDIT:

I would just like to stress AGAIN, there really isn't that much luck involved in poker and the amount that there is, is less than in golf. There's a reason why the same set of guys are always at that last table at the World Series of Poker.

well, like i said i don't know much about poker... i bow to your greater experience re. luck and poker...but the "fleeting" nature of good timing in ball sports makes the player who grinds and sticks around for half a day of concentrated effort in heat of upwards of 100 degrees ( play cricket in India!!) something heroic... he feels awful , plays awfully but still sticks around to cash in once he "finds his timing" ( whatever that means but you know what I mean... one minute your can't hit a thing then the next you can't miss).... compare that with grinding out a poker game and the "heroism/beauty" is less obvious... IMHO

eg. Faldo grinding 18 pars at Muirfield...Beauty
Ricky Ponting ( australian cricket captain) truly knows that you never give up at the crease... even when he is "off" he will never give up and he sticks around until he is "on"... that guy is tough!
Tiger does it too... Nicklaus must have but i am too young!

 

[Bill Miracle]

Me thinks...

many people think tiger is the ideal model for todays swing. How can the man hit 17 greens one day and shoot +3 the next day. He still got 10 greens but only hit 3 out of his first ten, he must have a major flaw to be doing this kind of stuff, I dont know what do you guys think?

It had something to do with the 20-30 mph winds blowing that day. They were terrible on Sat and Sun.

 

[self-mastery]

There is a lot more luck involved in golf than there is in poker.
EDIT:
I would just like to stress AGAIN, there really isn't that much luck involved in poker and the amount that there is, is less than in golf. There's a reason why the same set of guys are always at that last table at the World Series of Poker.

You are so right about luck. Only people that dont understand math believe that poker is about luck. I think that grinding is more important in cash games where you aren't fighting blinds. In tourneys you are forced to play because of
escalating blinds. I think that playing by the odds, to an extent, is less important in bigger buy in games.

I think that mental toughness is awarded in every aspect of life, and that is the most important element of grinding. Taking beats, accepting mini-failures, but staying the course.

It is so easy to let bad shots get ya down, but nothig sucks worse than getting sucked out on or breaking even for several thousand of hands in poker.


Getting started, keeping going, getting started again - in art and in life, it seems to me this is the essential rhythm not only of achievement but of survival, the ground of convinced action, the basis of self-esteem and the guarantee of credibility in your lives, credibility to yourselves as well as to others.

seamus henley

 

[shootin4par]

curious, I dont know much about poker
tiger is the best in the world and his winning percentage is something like one out of every four tourneys or one of 5, someone has the numbers on that.
anyway, do you think the best poker player in the world had a winning percentage such as that?