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willgolfer
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"I was 3 under through five (holes) and figured I could start letting it go, play by instinct and feel," he said. "That screwed up my whole round."
2nd tournament (a major no less) coming off an injury. It's all gravy right now.
2nd tournament (a major no less) coming off an injury. It's all gravy right now.
faux_maestro
New
I was looking forward to reading this thread. 
Dariusz, to be fair to Foley, Tiger DID struggle for about 18 months when he first started working with Haney and when he changed his swing with Butch after his first Masters. He's working with Trackman to zero out, right? He will get there, though I doubt "there" will be quite as dominant as his past.
Dariusz, to be fair to Foley, Tiger DID struggle for about 18 months when he first started working with Haney and when he changed his swing with Butch after his first Masters. He's working with Trackman to zero out, right? He will get there, though I doubt "there" will be quite as dominant as his past.
dschultz6072
New
Whatever, I still sport my TW 20xi hat. Haters drink haterade. I don't know what that means.
Tiger WILL return. Jack had a slump, too! That's what I keep telling myself.
Tiger WILL return. Jack had a slump, too! That's what I keep telling myself.
If 70 or so wins and 14 Majors in 15 years is a slump, every tour player should be so lucky to be in that kind of a slump. Their all in a slump till they win.
Tiger hasn't won in almost three years.His last win was back in 2008.That is a long slump and my point is that the longer it goes on for the harder it is to turn around.Did Jack have a three or four year period where he won nothing?
What J.N. did has nothing to do with what Tiger does or doesn't do, it's irrelevant the outcome is up to Tiger. "The longer it goes on the harder it is to turn around" , obviously , duh! Lets see, "the shorter it is the sooner it will be over", "it's over when it's over."
dschultz6072
New
I fear these wounds are fatal.
Dariusz J.
New member
Probably the best and most detailed answer dedicated to both explaining Haney's as well as Foley's concepts. ROFL.
I was looking forward to reading this thread.
Dariusz, to be fair to Foley, Tiger DID struggle for about 18 months when he first started working with Haney and when he changed his swing with Butch after his first Masters. He's working with Trackman to zero out, right? He will get there, though I doubt "there" will be quite as dominant as his past.
IMO, the problem is that blind beliefs in tools (like Trackman) without deepening researches on basic physics and, especially, anatomy will not work. If a change goes not against them, i.e. inpractice not against one's subconscious mind - it can and usually is fast and easy. If it goes against it will last longer or even endlessly long, depending on one's talent. Woods's talent is prolly the hugest in golf history so he may win this battle eventually (although I doubt it honestly) - but, again IMHO he is far to be in accordance with his subconscious mind with Foley's model as well as he was with Haney's model before.
Cheers
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
What does ROFL mean?
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Oh. Well thats a weird visual.
trickyric67
New
I think people are being over critical of Tiger at this point. While I am a great fan of Jack Nicklaus I have always had to admit that Tiger gave the world the greatest 5 year period of golf ever played. Having said that, no athlete has been that good as long as Tiger and completely lost it.
I think at least half the time he took off was do to recovery from injury and really shouldn't be counted in the "how long between wins" category. He did pull a 4th place finish in the masters before re injuring himself. I think as he gains confidence in his body's ability to withstand his swing he will start to play better. I see interviews with athletes all the time explaining that while they got a clean bill from the doctors it took about a full season to gain confidence that the injured area was 100% and they could then and only then just concentrate on playing their sport.
I think at least half the time he took off was do to recovery from injury and really shouldn't be counted in the "how long between wins" category. He did pull a 4th place finish in the masters before re injuring himself. I think as he gains confidence in his body's ability to withstand his swing he will start to play better. I see interviews with athletes all the time explaining that while they got a clean bill from the doctors it took about a full season to gain confidence that the injured area was 100% and they could then and only then just concentrate on playing their sport.
Does anyone know what the longest period of time in Tiger's life that he has gone "without" instruction of any kind? There's a strong possibility that he is completely dependent on teachers at this point.
I wish he would spend 6 months by himself and come back to the Tour completely self-reliant.
I wish he would spend 6 months by himself and come back to the Tour completely self-reliant.
trickyric67
New
that is an awesome observation!
I was thinking about other players that got paralysis by analysis. I think that may have happened to Seve, Ian Baker Finch and Bobby Clampett to name a few. It does seem that when these guys who were superstars let some guru get in their ear they lose the ability of self evaluation. Bobby Talked about it in his book. Something about how guys on tour got in his head and he left Ben Doyle and got so messed up he could never get back to where he was before going astray. Jack even had a period where he tried some other instructors stuff but he was that rare guy that was so mentally strong he was able to tell himself that what Jack Grout had taught him got him to the top of the mountain and was able to go back to it by himself.(his affiliation with Flick is all about making money, I've been to 5 clinic/seminars he has done for private companies and while 90% of the time he is talking about his career and business the 10% were he demonstrates and gives tips is always right out of "golf my way").
mgranato
New
A few open letters...
Tiger Fans,
When do you start expecting more? I'm most critical of the teams I care the most about, I expect them to perform to their potential. Why isn't there any honest criticism coming from the group that cares the most about their man? Tough love is still love.
Tiger Apologists,
My sympathies are with you. It has to be an exhausting position to take. He's injured, he's not. He's close, he's not. He needs time, it's been a year. His game is a complete mess, and he's just fired the ONLY person who actually had a positive impact on his scores. His team now consists of a theorist, the head apologist, and a buddy. Get some rest guys, your job is far from over.
Tiger Haters,
I know it's a default moniker for anyone who doesn't fall into the first two categories, but don't take it personally, they haven't been themselves the past couple years. Settle in, things aren't going to change anytime soon. And take solace in the fact, contrary to some opinions, professional golf has still been played this year. In fact, we've actually gotten to see and enjoy some incredible record setting golf from guys not wearing Victory Red on Sunday.
Tiger Fans,
When do you start expecting more? I'm most critical of the teams I care the most about, I expect them to perform to their potential. Why isn't there any honest criticism coming from the group that cares the most about their man? Tough love is still love.
Tiger Apologists,
My sympathies are with you. It has to be an exhausting position to take. He's injured, he's not. He's close, he's not. He needs time, it's been a year. His game is a complete mess, and he's just fired the ONLY person who actually had a positive impact on his scores. His team now consists of a theorist, the head apologist, and a buddy. Get some rest guys, your job is far from over.
Tiger Haters,
I know it's a default moniker for anyone who doesn't fall into the first two categories, but don't take it personally, they haven't been themselves the past couple years. Settle in, things aren't going to change anytime soon. And take solace in the fact, contrary to some opinions, professional golf has still been played this year. In fact, we've actually gotten to see and enjoy some incredible record setting golf from guys not wearing Victory Red on Sunday.
faux_maestro
New
His last major was 2008 U.S. Open (over 3 years ago), last win anywhere was early November 2009 in Australia (almost 2 years ago).
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