Toed Shots

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strav

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birdie_man said:
Man this is driving me nuts.

The ball generally goes straight and far when I hit it on the sweetspot but I'm missing it more than ever.

I'll even hit a few shots OFF THE GROOVES every round. GARRRRRRRRRrrrRRRRRrrRR. I even hit one that the other day that almost MISSED the clubhead toe-side. (hit it on the FREAKIN toe-NAIL!!)
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Any loss in Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wrist Bend - Clubhead Throwaway. Which starts the Club swinging from the Wrists - in an “inside” and “upward” motion.

If the club is going in and up then shouldn’t impact be low and towards the toe?
 
Burner

Burner

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birdie_man said:
Man this is driving me nuts.

The ball generally goes straight and far when I hit it on the sweetspot but I'm missing it more than ever.

I'll even hit a few shots OFF THE GROOVES every round. GARRRRRRRRRrrrRRRRRrrRR. I even hit one that the other day that almost MISSED the clubhead toe-side. (hit it on the FREAKIN toe-NAIL!!)

It doesn't seem to matter how I swing........toe shots like crazy ever since I've bent my posture over more. Direction and distance are great though if I hit it solid like I said. It's freakin maddening.

When I go out today I'll surely try a bunch of stuff........at this point I really don't know WHAT it is so I'll be tinkering a bunch no doubt.

WISH ME LUCK. GAHHAGRHAGRHRGKaout.

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BTW Sean....I do seem to get it more when I quit (I really notice when I quit on a pitch shot) but man I seem to get it no matter how I swing. Full roll or angled hinge or flat or steep outside inside etc.

And my clubs ain't super upright either......they are standard. And I do think they are TOO upright but I'm pretty sure it shouldn't be causing this.

We've talked about balance lately and it being overrated but this has only been happening since I've changed my posture.

I'm gonna try really making sure I stand a little closer to it today but it hasn't felt right up till now and I'm pretty sure I haven't been standing too far away from it anyway. And there's no way I should have to address the ball on the heel either and I don't want to do that.
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This happens to me now and again and the feeling I get is that I am swinging a little too much in to out and then (subconsciously or otherwise) trying to retrieve the situation by bending the plane line towards the target.

Sound familiar?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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strav said:
Any loss in Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wrist Bend - Clubhead Throwaway. Which starts the Club swinging from the Wrists - in an “inside” and “upward” motion.

If the club is going in and up then shouldn’t impact be low and towards the toe?
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I know what you're getting at but I don't think it's throwaway.

It can happen on any shot- seemingly pretty randomly- from knockdown mashed definitely throwaway-free sand wedge.......to full out driver or long iron. I dunno.

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Jim said:
Many clubmakers have told me that about 1* of lie angle off will move the contact point about 1/4" of an inch.
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Jim that's very interesting.

They are standardish lies (5 iron 61* I think) but I know they are too upright and I've always thought these standard lies are too upright anyway. (kinda like hooked-faced drivers are unneccessary mostly)

Also....to be specific about my ballflight......shots actually ARE drawing these days......I have a very very hard time fading it unless I open the face at address (and even then...) or do something ridiculous to my clubface during the swing. (very uncontrollably open)

I just never thought it could make that much of a diff. cause like I said I've been MISSING the GROOVES even on a lot of these shots.
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

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Burner said:
This happens to me now and again and the feeling I get is that I am swinging a little too much in to out and then (subconsciously or otherwise) trying to retrieve the situation by bending the plane line towards the target.

Sound familiar?
Click to expand...

Burner I'm not sure what you mean.

I just really have no idea buddy................like I said...........I can swing very far to the right also and I still hit the toe.

Going out tomorrow morning.....maybe I can fix er up a bit.
 
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strav

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Birdie if its none of the above, I'm starting to suspect TENSION. Your "GARRRRRRRRRrrrRRRRRrrRR." certainly suggests a bit of emotional strain there and maybe this is increased by the suspense of not knowing if the next shot will be toed also. Sort of like a self-fulfilling prophecy. Is it more prevalent when the shot is more important to you? Does it occur more during a tournament than practice? Is it there the harder you try?
I read somewhere that tension causes you to pull the arms towards the body.
Does anyone have a successful technique for combating tension in these situations?
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I does seem to increase when I am hitting delicate pitches and I quit on em.

I don't think tension is the root cause though. You would not believe how ridiculous it can be....I often will hit pitches that believe it or not end up very close to the hole despite looking down post-shot to see the ball mark OFF the grooves toe-side. (but no one cept you guys has to know that ;) hehe)

On a side note I think the shot will often fly shorter and roll further on a toe shot like that. (I would rather not know this information however....GARHGARHGhg)

Thanks for the help though I appreciate it.

It has been getting better and we'll see how it is today.
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

New
New theory.

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Brian.........

1. Is it possible that because my irons are too upright, and are influencing my shots to the left, that I am constantly swinging too far to the right to "save the shot" (without knowing it)............?

(I pretty much assume this to be true already)

2. Could a problem such as this cause toe hits all by itself? I do seem to hit it even FURTHER off the toe when I swing more to the right on purpose.

3. Jim said he has heard 1/4 inch deviation towards the toe for every degree too upright.........true?

4. Could all this together be causing toe hits this bad?

...

Help me Obie One Kanoby you are my only hope.....................ahhhhhh.............
 
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J

Jim Kobylinski

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birdie...try something for me; hit 3/4 wedge shots that get to a 3/4 finish without letting your right foot come off the ground. Tell me where contact is
 
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strav

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Searching through the book

Does an incorrect Power Accumulator Release sequence or the failure to allow Delay of the Release until all Components, except the Right Foot and the Right Shoulder, have reached, or passed, the Line-of Sight‑to‑the‑Ball (6-M‑1) cause release of the Lag and Drag in the pivot train, and lead to a shortening of the Swing Radius, (6-B-0). Could we experience this as ‘hitting off the toe?’
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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Got a 6 iron and a SW bent 3 flat yesterday.....

(errrr he actually only did the SW 2.5 and told me this was the way it was commonly supposed to be......he said there was some kind of progression from long to short irons when dealing with an iron set......this true BTW?)

But ya......it in itself has made a difference in my ball flight and I think also in the toed shots I think.

Hit some balls into the bush in my backyard today and they were going real good. (I hit them into a clump of pine trees and I can find them again cause it's all pine needles on the ground underneath which is cool)

I found it really allowed me to swing more left without as much fear of really hitting a overkill pull-draw. (although I still had to force myself to do it very manually) I seem to be able to it much more comfortably now though so we'll see how that carries out.

I still feel somewhat weird with it though because it FEELS like I'm gonna lose my tilt and get on top of the shaft too much and pull the hell outta it....but lately I've been doing the exact opposite I think. (but still pulling and hooking it) I've been backing out of it and thus I think unknowingly swinging too far to the right and not storing as well as I need to. It will probably be hard to shake the feeling that I need to be more under the hit but I am gonna work on this for sure now.

...

BTW hey Strav you should look into this if you haven't already.....haven't tested it a lot but so far very good with the results on this end...thusfar. I pured about 20 in a row which is far and away the best I've struck it in a good while.........and paired with hitting it with a lot more control it was much much better.
 
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birdie_man

birdie_man

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Side question to Brian and all the fitting experts and instructors out there:

Do clubs come too upright today with their "standard" lies?

If so.....I do know that I'll take real improvement over band-aids any day. (so they can keep their hook-faced drivers too)
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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I think so too right about now. How much do you have yours flattened?

BTW Jim I just remembered about it......your right foot down thing would basically serve to keep me from backing out of it and would rotate my path to the left right? (errrrrrrraa- 'correct?')
 
J

Jim Kobylinski

Super Moderator
I went over this, it's because of toe droop. If the club is too upright, when the toe droops due to shaft bend the toe will be too high and the sweetspot won't be "down" enough hence you hit it on the toe.
 
birdie_man

birdie_man

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The technique change must have something to do with it too though. I still hit the flattened 6 iron off the toe a few times until I started focusing on my plane line.

Whatever though I'm happy that's for sure......hit it real good again today. Way better and even hit a few fades without opening the face at address.
 
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