tongzilla's pattern

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

Right Forearm Pickup

Your shoulders are moving your arms from the git-go, cranking all the way to a 90+ deg wind up. No way is that RFT!

Right Forearm Pickup because my Educated Hands is telling my Right Forearm to Trace the Straight Plane Line. Per 10-24-F, the Shoulder Turn "Takeaway" produces a curved Plane Shift by both the Hands and Clubhead. Although I do shift from the Elbow Plane to the Turned Shoulder Plane, I continue to Trace a Straight Plane Line, not a Bent/Curved one.

My Pivot has responded to the dictatorship role of my Hands. There is no way for my Hands to get to where they are at the Top of the Backstroke while maintaining the necessary Alignments, without my shoulders turning the way they are.

In a RFT, the shoulders are grudgingly dragged to their final position by the right forearm going directly back, up, and in to the Top - The tail wags the dog. The #4 Accum is swept loaded. In your case, #4 is the same as it was at address until the shoulders are coiled and then the arms are thrown to the End, snap loading #4 - the dog wags the tail.

Saying that the shoulders are being told by the hands what to do doesn't make an RFT, it's whether or not the right forearm is dragging the shoulders or not - in your case, clearly NOT.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe


In a RFT, the shoulders are grudgingly dragged to their final position by the right forearm going directly back, up, and in to the Top

Not true!

We simply attach different meanings to the terminology. This is a cyclical "I'm right you're wrong -- no, I'm right you're wrong" type discussion. Lets move on...

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe


In a RFT, the shoulders are grudgingly dragged to their final position by the right forearm going directly back, up, and in to the Top

Not true!

We simply attach different meanings to the terminology. This is a cyclical "I'm right you're wrong -- no, I'm right you're wrong" type discussion. Lets move on...

Ok - in your world, both you and Jack Nicklaus are RFTers!

 

[David Alford]

Bantamben, thanks for the interest. Let me just get this clip up first. I'll be interested in your opinion, as I've altered the model to try to improve the club/hand angles. Mac probably wouldn't like that, but I always fiddle around with mechanics to see if there is any room for improvement. Hard to improve on what Mac does with this model though, as he spent 25 yrs. with it.

 

[birdie_man]

quote:Originally posted by tongzilla
Right Forearm Pickup because my Educated Hands is telling my Right Forearm to Trace the Straight Plane Line. Per 10-24-F, the Shoulder Turn "Takeaway" produces a curved Plane Shift by both the Hands and Clubhead. Although I do shift from the Elbow Plane to the Turned Shoulder Plane, I continue to Trace a Straight Plane Line, not a Bent/Curved one.

Aha thanks for that Leo.

So- is taking the club underplane with the shoulder turn and Tracing a Curved Line what defines a true STT?

...

I think you guys just are just thinking of this differently.

MizJoe seems to refer to a RFP in the "pure RFP" sense- a true pickUP of the R. Forearm STRAIGHT UP the Turned Shoulder Plane. Ala Couples (I think...).

Tong says it's more of a "something (R. Forearm) has to lift at somepoint" deal.

So what does TGM say?

....

BTW Leo.....what are you thinking of as your first move?

Turning the shoulders/adding Extensor Action.....or just taking the R. Forearm back?

-Paul

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

it looks like he is using a hybrid STT and RFP. It seems he is initially using the shoulders to move away from the ball and then uses the right forearm pickup TECHNIQUE to get the top. This will still allow you to trace a perfectly straight plane line.

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man

Aha thanks for that Leo.

So- is taking the club underplane with the shoulder turn and Tracing a Curved Line what defines a true STT?

...

I think you guys just are just thinking of this differently.

MizJoe seems to refer to a RFP in the "pure RFP" sense- a true pickUP of the R. Forearm STRAIGHT UP the Turned Shoulder Plane. Ala Couples (I think...).

Tong says it's more of a "something (R. Forearm) has to lift at somepoint" deal.

So what does TGM say?

....

First, my Club is not on the Turned Shoulder Plane at Address. The Turned Shoulder Plane Angle is the line drawn from the Right Shoulder at the Top of the Backstroke to the Ball. My Club is shallower than this at Address. With the 'purest' Right Forearm Takeaway, the Club begins on the Turned Shoulder Plane, and it remains on this Plane Angle throughout the Stroke. How big a shoulder turn you make, or whether it's "dragged by the right forearm" is irrelevant.

This is the 'purest' Shoulder Turn Takeaway. Go grab a Club and set up at Address as usual. Now make a shoulder turn without doing any lifting with your Right Forearm. If you did this properly, the Clubhead would be dragged along on the ground (never lifted above ground), making a sharp arc inwards. As you can see, it's impossible to Trace a Straight Plane Line without lifting your Right Forearm.

What you are thinking of during the Stroke does not come into this. I would not be surprised at all if you asked Couples if he uses his Right Forearm to take the Club away and he says "No!". The fact is, and I will repeat myself again, he can't be Tracing a Straight Plane Line without lifting his Right Forearm on the Takeaway.

To learn what Homer had to say about this, study 10-6-B, 10-24-F and 5-0.

quote:Originally posted by birdie_man
BTW Leo.....what are you thinking of as your first move?

Turning the shoulders/adding Extensor Action.....or just taking the R. Forearm back?

I try to not think of anything in particular when I'm hitting a Ball. I prefer working on mechanics at home, without a Ball and sometimes without Club. If I need to focus on something on the practice range, it's almost always the Hands: its Path and Pressure Points. The things you mentioned ("turning the shoulders back / Extensor Action") I work on at home, because it will eventually leak through when I am striking a Ball.

 

[tongzilla]

One misconception about the Right Forearm Takeaway is that it cannot be used in conjunction with a Lagging Clubhead Takeaway. Which is not true

 

[Steve Khatib]

Leo,

I like your swing and give it a 8 out of 10 rating.

Three things, you need to be a little bit more 3 dimensional, get a deeper pivot going back, and keep that STT its pure( "a rose by any other name will smell as sweet"), what ever you define it as.

 

[MizunoJoe]

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

Leo,

I like your swing and give it a 8 out of 10 rating.

Three things, you need to be a little bit more 3 dimensional, get a deeper pivot going back, and keep that STT its pure( "a rose by any other name will smell as sweet"), what ever you define it as.

I was betting that 4bls would be the AI with the guts to come out of the woodwork!

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by MizunoJoe


I was betting that 4bls would be the AI with the guts to come out of the woodwork!

What are you implying MJ?

 

[tongzilla]

quote:Originally posted by FOUR BARRELS AUSTRALIAN

Leo,

I like your swing and give it a 8 out of 10 rating.

Three things, you need to be a little bit more 3 dimensional, get a deeper pivot going back, and keep that STT its pure( "a rose by any other name will smell as sweet"), what ever you define it as.

Thanks for the feedback, Steve.