Too much mechanics

[Mbaker1979]

First of all I am new to the forum and think not only is it the best golfing forum but must also be one of the best on the web. Full of info on the golf swing and Brian is a great teacher and show man from watching his videos.

That last sentence brings me to my question; Is it possible to get too tied up in the inner workings of the swing to the point where it limits a golfers play. We all know someone at our club that is obsessed with equipment, buys all the latest gear and is constantly swapping out clubs thinking they will sort his game. Then I think you get players that are so into swing theory they are constantly playing around with their swings to the detriment of their overall game. You know the ones who buy the monthly magazines and try out the tips...etc.


Let me know what you think.

 

[teeithigh]

agree very much....you'll find the pros talk a lot about rythmn and tempo and not so much about positioning....(granted their positions are usually good)easier to get to good positions DURING MOTION....

 

[rosser]

mechanic's

First of all I am new to the forum and think not only is it the best golfing forum but must also be one of the best on the web. Full of info on the golf swing and Brian is a great teacher and show man from watching his videos.

That last sentence brings me to my question; Is it possible to get too tied up in the inner workings of the swing to the point where it limits a golfers play. We all know someone at our club that is obsessed with equipment, buys all the latest gear and is constantly swapping out clubs thinking they will sort his game. Then I think you get players that are so into swing theory they are constantly playing around with their swings to the detriment of their overall game. You know the ones who buy the monthly magazines and try out the tips...etc.


Let me know what you think.

Sorta right.

Mechanics is what we do and learn by repetition. Problem is who is telling
you what is correct? Many teachers just don't know how to really teach.
They can have one fit to be tied , and not a clue on the clarity of the swing.

If one is on a so called system and he or she is not getting better in 6 months to lets say 1 year, that coconut is going to misfire and keep them in the practice mode and never get to the real mode.

Now if one is believing and seeing results and the teacher is doing the right thing for the pupil, there should be signs of confidence in there swing gains, to be come more automatic. If it is not, I can bet that what he or she is working at, can be traced back the non clarity of the teacher and what he teach's

The Brian Manzella Golf Academy is doing the right things.
Best golf and a fresh coconut to enjoy the game.

 

[Mbaker1979]

Sorta right.

If one is on a so called system and he or she is not getting better in 6 months to lets say 1 year, that coconut is going to misfire and keep them in the practice mode and never get to the real mode.

Now if one is believing and seeing results and the teacher is doing the right thing for the pupil, there should be signs of confidence in there swing gains, to be come more automatic. If it is not, I can bet that what he or she is working at, can be traced back the non clarity of the teacher and what he teach's
QUOTE]

Interesting point rosser, I wonder what timeframe Brian would expect with his pupils, in terms of seeing an improvement?

The reason I pick up on this is that I started having lessons with the pro at my club about 2 years ago and although I have dropped my handicap from 17 to 12 I would say that has been more to do with improved chipping and putting. I had a flip and horrible over the top move which I must say is now much better/more or less gone but I am still just as unaccurate???? If I hit 3 GIR's I have had a good round and feel at the moment 12 is about my limit in terms of how low I can go.

 

[shortgamer]

Sorta right.

If one is on a so called system and he or she is not getting better in 6 months to lets say 1 year, that coconut is going to misfire and keep them in the practice mode and never get to the real mode.

Now if one is believing and seeing results and the teacher is doing the right thing for the pupil, there should be signs of confidence in there swing gains, to be come more automatic. If it is not, I can bet that what he or she is working at, can be traced back the non clarity of the teacher and what he teach's
QUOTE]

Interesting point rosser, I wonder what timeframe Brian would expect with his pupils, in terms of seeing an improvement?

The reason I pick up on this is that I started having lessons with the pro at my club about 2 years ago and although I have dropped my handicap from 17 to 12 I would say that has been more to do with improved chipping and putting. I had a flip and horrible over the top move which I must say is now much better/more or less gone but I am still just as unaccurate???? If I hit 3 GIR's I have had a good round and feel at the moment 12 is about my limit in terms of how low I can go.

I think Brian would say that you should see improvement from the first lesson on. He's said before that he'll make changes to make you better without bastardizing what you already have.

 

[Mbaker1979]

Improvement straight away even if the student has had the same fault for say 15 years and then has to unlearn all the compensations...etc.

 

[shortgamer]

Improvement straight away even if the student has had the same fault for say 15 years and then has to unlearn all the compensations...etc.

I don't know-I had a fault that was 20 years old and by the end of the lesson I wasn't doing it. That said, I do still sometimes fall back into it but obviously it's no fault on Brian it's just something I have to keep working on. Old habit's are extremely hard to break. I'm pretty pumped right now because next Sat. I've got two hours with the man and were going to get this crap fixed!

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Improvement straight away even if the student has had the same fault for say 15 years and then has to unlearn all the compensations...etc.

I have made a guarrantee that i have yet to break in ANY of my lessons:

1) You will leave the lesson hitting it better, you will NEVER get "worse" before you get "better." If someone tells you that, they just don't know how to make YOU better.

2) You will leave with a better understanding of what you were doing wrong, what you are now going to try and do, and how to self diagnose to a point.

3) You will hit at least 1 (if not more but always say at least 1) perfectly struck shot that flies directly at your target.

Brian knows how to teach and fix people and get results immediately. I have learned from him so i can do the same, but not always at the same pace i mean he has 20+ years on me at this teaching game lol.

It isn't hype either, do a search and read all the reviews.

 

[tbyeaton0627]

I have made a guarrantee that i have yet to break in ANY of my lessons:

1) You will leave the lesson hitting it better, you will NEVER get "worse" before you get "better." If someone tells you that, they just don't know how to make YOU better.

2) You will leave with a better understanding of what you were doing wrong, what you are now going to try and do, and how to self diagnose to a point.

3) You will hit at least 1 (if not more but always say at least 1) perfectly struck shot that flies directly at your target.

Brian knows how to teach and fix people and get results immediately. I have learned from him so i can do the same, but not always at the same pace i mean he has 20+ years on me at this teaching game lol.

It isn't hype either, do a search and read all the reviews.

if someone is making a true change to their golf swing, would it not be understandable to assume that this new motion "feel" won't be directly incorporated into their game right away? ..curious as to your opinion...

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

if someone is making a true change to their golf swing, would it not be understandable to assume that this new motion "feel" won't be directly incorporated into their game right away? ..curious as to your opinion...

If i show you what you were doing wrong and was able to get you to not do it anymore and you hit the ball better by YOUR standards (not even mine) why wouldn't you?

 

[Spike]

Gave a putting lesson the other day. The guy really had impact down by the time he left and was loving it.

He holed a lot of putts and lagged very well, then missed a 3 foot putt late in a round that day and went back to his old way of putting.

I asked why and he said it just didn't feel right....go figure.

 

[golfer24]

Golfers in the U.K are petrified of mechanics believing that thinking about mechanics will screw up there game. Strange when they are more than happy to think about keeping there head down and swinging down the line which of course is totally flawed and causes far worse swings than thinking about correct mechanics ever would.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Mechanics...

Well...

The golfer need to know what to do, and how to feel it.

Usually takes less than an hour.

If I have more time, I'll make a better dent.

I use to say all of that "It will take some time before you can do it."

That's was when I couldn't REALLY teach.

Now I say, "It might take some time before you can do it EVREY time."

Ask GolfBulldog about his lesson....very un-mechanical lesson, but very mechanically better swing.

 

[tbyeaton0627]

If i show you what you were doing wrong and was able to get you to not do it anymore and you hit the ball better by YOUR standards (not even mine) why wouldn't you?

Maybe in a perfect world that would be true... I understand that in today's world instant gratifiation is expected but the learning curve is not always a continuous rise like we would all hope...instead it will plateu and even dip a little which IS the norm...noone ever gets anything new right away no matter how badly we wish it to be true...i am not trying to undermine you as an instructor as i believe you have the necessary tools to help people but it may be a bit audacious to believe what you do

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Maybe in a perfect world that would be true... I understand that in today's world instant gratifiation is expected but the learning curve is not always a continuous rise like we would all hope...instead it will plateu and even dip a little which IS the norm...noone ever gets anything new right away no matter how badly we wish it to be true...i am not trying to undermine you as an instructor as i believe you have the necessary tools to help people but it may be a bit audacious to believe what you do

Well, as Brian said above we can get the everyone to stop doing it in the actual lesson because we know how to make you not do it. However, when we are not there "coaching you" there will be times when you "revert." But if we did our job correctly it shouldn't happen all that often.

Now i apologize if you took what i wrote as a 100% fixed situation, no of course that doesn't happen, even in my own game lol. But it should happen less and less and less until you have fixed the problem. Does that make sense?

Also the way the "Manzella Matrix" is designed is we put people into patterns at either end of the Matrix and over time that initial pattern tends to not work over time. Reason is because that particular pattern was designed, for you, to fix the flaws you have but also allow you to play BETTER GOLF. What happens is that over time you will fix those faults and then the pattern tends to not work as effective. That's when we try to put you into another pattern that will fix the next "set" of flaws, and then again until we get you somewhere in the middle of the matrix where you only have a few flaws that you work on for your golfing life.

for instance for me, i tend to be towards the fade side of the matrix because i've always been one to have a little more open of a clubface and lose my axis tilt through the ball a little bit which makes me swing too far left. So for me, i just constantly work on my clubface and axis tilt combined with plane line drills to keep my swing in shape.

Hope that makes more sense.

 

[golfbulldog]

Well...

The golfer need to know what to do, and how to feel it.

Usually takes less than an hour.

If I have more time, I'll make a better dent.

I use to say all of that "It will take some time before you can do it."

That's was when I couldn't REALLY teach.

Now I say, "It might take some time before you can do it EVREY time."

Ask GolfBulldog about his lesson....very un-mechanical lesson, but very mechanically better swing.

Thanks Brian, you are right - my lesson was surprisingly ( to my expectations at that time) "unmechanical" but then my problems were more about allowing me to make some certain movements which i just would not allow myself to make because i had convinced myself that they were mechanically unsound - hence i had become more "stack and tilt" without even trying... never experienced any weight on my right heel on the backswing etc...

During the lessons it took time for me to adjust to sensations which felt quite alien - i learn quite cautiously - but did experience a better pivot by the end. Repeating that experience is my problem now - initially i went back and forth between the two feels ( old and new) even during rounds of golf... but i am more comfortable with the new pivot/backswing etc now... and have had some alarming results - first albatross, an extra 10 yards ( with better trajectory) on iron shots, and a series of short game shots that allow me to hit a greater variety of shots around the green.

When i get the pivot right i have no concern about whether i am hitting or swinging, snap release or whatever... i feel very simple sensations that i try and repeat - i still miss some shots but my best shots are now better - with practice my worst will be less frequent.

Will try and video in next month or so - need to work at my real job first to meet some deadlines - too much golf recently !!!

 

[tbarbertab]

Well...

The golfer need to know what to do, and how to feel it.

Usually takes less than an hour.

If I have more time, I'll make a better dent.

I use to say all of that "It will take some time before you can do it."

That's was when I couldn't REALLY teach.

Now I say, "It might take some time before you can do it EVREY time."

Ask GolfBulldog about his lesson....very un-mechanical lesson, but very mechanically better swing.

I've been to see Brian 3 times now, and I feel like I know much much more about the golf swing than ever before. This site has also taught me a lot also. Unfortunately, it seems that the more I know, the worse I play.

Brian always gets me hitting it better over the short term, but after a few months, I seem to bastardize it to the point that I play much worse. At present, my iron play is as bad as I can remember. Consistant contact with the irons seems impossible. Driver is good though. My game peaked in 2002-2004, and it's really frustrating.

Not Brian's fault at all, he's given me everything I need to get better - somehow I'm just not able to tie everything together I'll keep trying though...

 

[Brian Manzella]

It's always the PATTERN (hence the teacher)....not the student.

If you are trying to do something, and you are not getting better, you are absolutely trying to do the wrong things.

Most teachers would say you just need to keep working on it—and maybe 15+ years ago, I would say it as well.

Not now. I know better.

With Tracy, a hard working student, I tried to make a huge dent in a couple of things we both wanted to eliminate from his swing.

I was not comfortable with the attempt, but—trust me—only an idiot would say that WHAT we were working on were "bad things."

I'd day 90% of all teachers would have wanted to fix those items.

Well, they would be wrong and so was I.

I know EXACTLY what I will do in the next sessions, and I know this because I now what won't work.

Sometimes, that is just as important.

The pattern we were trying for, might be GREAT for Zach Johnson or Joe Piscopolous, but it isn't ideal for Tracy.

"No such thing as a bad student, only bad teacher." —Mr. Miyagi​

 

[Ringer]

The mechanics are best left to the engineer. The opperator should be more interested in how to USE the tool.

 

[Brian Manzella]

The mechanics are best left to the engineer. The opperator should be more interested in how to USE the tool.

No doubt.

My best student knows the BARE MINIMUM.

(On purpose. )