TPI vs. zenoLink
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Funny you should ask...
I have always thought that golfers should train like real athletes, and that one day, the tour would have a bunch of guys that look more like Guy McGinnis—a guy I grew up with that played major college basketball with Joe Dumars—then there would be guys looking like Bob Murphy.
I played 5A high school football, and trained 356 days a year. I ran so many stadium steps, that I could run them almost as fast as I could a simple incline. I was so good at all the tire drills, that they had to let me go first all the time or I would run over the guy in front of me.
Oh, and I played golf on the golf team, and with the worst technique of all time, would up with a college scholarship.
By the time I was 24, I was 20 pounds heavier than I was at Free Safety, a couple of seconds in the forty slower, and a lot better golfer, because I had researched the heck out of the swing and taught myself to play better.
But my body sucked.
I told my pal Todd Nunez in early 1987 that I was going to get in world-class shape and go see Ben Doyle and see if I could hit it a bunch better.
He laughed and said "good shape" would be just fine.
I disagreed.
Now "world-class" shape I wasn't, by August of 1987, I was down to 151 pounds, 5-8 body fat, could bench press 30 more pounds, and did a full bodt workout four days a week.
Oh, I almost forgot...I played 10 hours of Basketball a week, walked 108 holes a week, played football twice a week for about 6 hours, and went out and danced a couple of night a week.
I had gone to see Ben, and besides looking like a totally different golfer, I swung like a real golfer as well. If I'd have known about the D-Plane, and understood the 9 shots of the Manzella Matrix Short Game, I would have been pretty good.
As it was, I was light years better than I had ever been.
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Being in big-time shape, with strength and flexibility is HUGE in golf.
So, what do I think of TPI?
When someone stands up at a PGA Teaching Summit, and says that folks coming over the top because of their bodies, when I have seen those type folks get fixed in 20 minutes on my lesson tee, I have to be a bit lukewarm on what they stand for.
My personal belief is this:
After talking to some renown people on the subject, my recommendation is to train the WHOLE BODY. If a zenolink or TPI trainer will do it, great.
I am very apprehensive about recommending "spot" training. And I am not saying any of these "methodologies" suggest spot training either. I just think whole body is better.
And I can fix folks without them having to be in shape.
And I am not saying it wouldn't be easier if they were in better shape.
I am saying I evaluate folks WHILE I AM FIXING THEM. that is a big part of teaching....figuring out what THAT PERSON in front of you can and can't do, and teaching around their limitattions.
But I want to go on record as saying, I think anyone wanting to play their best golf, should go find a top notch athletic trainer, and train their whole body hard.
I have always thought that golfers should train like real athletes, and that one day, the tour would have a bunch of guys that look more like Guy McGinnis—a guy I grew up with that played major college basketball with Joe Dumars—then there would be guys looking like Bob Murphy.
I played 5A high school football, and trained 356 days a year. I ran so many stadium steps, that I could run them almost as fast as I could a simple incline. I was so good at all the tire drills, that they had to let me go first all the time or I would run over the guy in front of me.
Oh, and I played golf on the golf team, and with the worst technique of all time, would up with a college scholarship.
By the time I was 24, I was 20 pounds heavier than I was at Free Safety, a couple of seconds in the forty slower, and a lot better golfer, because I had researched the heck out of the swing and taught myself to play better.
But my body sucked.
I told my pal Todd Nunez in early 1987 that I was going to get in world-class shape and go see Ben Doyle and see if I could hit it a bunch better.
He laughed and said "good shape" would be just fine.
I disagreed.
Now "world-class" shape I wasn't, by August of 1987, I was down to 151 pounds, 5-8 body fat, could bench press 30 more pounds, and did a full bodt workout four days a week.
Oh, I almost forgot...I played 10 hours of Basketball a week, walked 108 holes a week, played football twice a week for about 6 hours, and went out and danced a couple of night a week.
I had gone to see Ben, and besides looking like a totally different golfer, I swung like a real golfer as well. If I'd have known about the D-Plane, and understood the 9 shots of the Manzella Matrix Short Game, I would have been pretty good.
As it was, I was light years better than I had ever been.
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<EMBED height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash width=425 src=http://www.youtube.com/v/p8aT8wInXN8&hl=en_US&fs=1&rel=0 allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>
Being in big-time shape, with strength and flexibility is HUGE in golf.
So, what do I think of TPI?
When someone stands up at a PGA Teaching Summit, and says that folks coming over the top because of their bodies, when I have seen those type folks get fixed in 20 minutes on my lesson tee, I have to be a bit lukewarm on what they stand for.
My personal belief is this:
After talking to some renown people on the subject, my recommendation is to train the WHOLE BODY. If a zenolink or TPI trainer will do it, great.
I am very apprehensive about recommending "spot" training. And I am not saying any of these "methodologies" suggest spot training either. I just think whole body is better.
And I can fix folks without them having to be in shape.
And I am not saying it wouldn't be easier if they were in better shape.
I am saying I evaluate folks WHILE I AM FIXING THEM. that is a big part of teaching....figuring out what THAT PERSON in front of you can and can't do, and teaching around their limitattions.
But I want to go on record as saying, I think anyone wanting to play their best golf, should go find a top notch athletic trainer, and train their whole body hard.
Chip Putterman
New
How can anyone living in New Orleans ever stay thin?
ssssc
New
birdie_man
New
Nice swing.
jeffgladchun
New
Absolutely.
Golf is no different than any other sport. Tiger Woods trains as hard (harder?) as any other top-tier athlete in the world.
Anyone who says fitness doesn't count for golf is a Grade-A Moron.
Golf is no different than any other sport. Tiger Woods trains as hard (harder?) as any other top-tier athlete in the world.
Anyone who says fitness doesn't count for golf is a Grade-A Moron.
well
thanks for the responses
I'm really looking for someone who's experienced both programs thoughts.
I'm certified TPI, have spent time with Chris and zenoLink and tend to agree with Brian (as I do on most subjects, esp. SEC football).
Here's where I'm training Body Specs, inc.
thanks for the responses
I'm really looking for someone who's experienced both programs thoughts.
I'm certified TPI, have spent time with Chris and zenoLink and tend to agree with Brian (as I do on most subjects, esp. SEC football).
Here's where I'm training Body Specs, inc.
birdie_man
New
Word.
More power. More flexibility. More durability. More overall health. Etc.
"Next." -Brian Manzella
I have had some good success with the programs outlined on this website:
Core Performance | Powered by Athletes' Performance
You can subscribe to the site, and you get daily strength, flexibility, and nutrition advice based on your program goals. One of the better resources I have found.
(I have no affiliation with this website or program)
Core Performance | Powered by Athletes' Performance
You can subscribe to the site, and you get daily strength, flexibility, and nutrition advice based on your program goals. One of the better resources I have found.
(I have no affiliation with this website or program)
Slicer McGolf
New
Good first post here.
TPI 3D can give you immediate feedback but it attempts players to set up in a certain fashion. Chris Welch's work with Zenolink is a superior product and players are provided a progressive skills training program to improve your action.
TPI 3D can give you immediate feedback but it attempts players to set up in a certain fashion. Chris Welch's work with Zenolink is a superior product and players are provided a progressive skills training program to improve your action.
cmartingolf
New
I totally agree...
I just played in a high profile Pro Am tournament and played with a variety of "bodies." All skilled players, scratch or better.
I played with two aging overweight PGA members that could still strike it, but couldn't hit it out of their shadow (260 or less); out of shape, with very little flexability.
One Am had a beautiful looking swing, could strike it, and couldn't bust a grape. He was about 60, had absoutely ZERO recipricating motion (all back at once, all down at once) and had to hit hybrid from 160.
The other Am was about 40 (my age) built like A-Rod and could fly it 300 (at sea level) but couldn't compress an iron to save his life. I hit a couple of 300 yard drives only to see his ball 50 - 60 past mine. It was a coin toss if he hit the green, but boy could he drive it.
The moral of the story: the two aging Pro's "had game" but their bodies didn't let them "really play" any more. The 60 year old guy wasn't STRONG ENOUGH to really play and the Stud didn't know how to really play but had massive potential.
Jon Hardesty
New
I definitely believe that fitness in golf in all aspects really sets up the foundation for huge potential.
Jon Hardesty
New
Chris knows his stuff.
Chris Welch
New
This is Chris Welch, CEO/Founder of ZenoLink.
I was on this forum posting in another thread and saw this thread TPI vs. ZenoLink so thought I would post a few quick thoughts.
As far as ZenoLink goes... ZenoLink is not a fitness based product like TPI. It is a biomechanical, optical 6dof 3-D motion based FUNCTIONAL ASSESSMENT product. Understanding what that means is very important. In many ways comparing TPI and ZenoLink is like apples to oranges. ZenoLink focuses on coordination and biomechanical activity specific function where TPI focuses more on anatomical function - both are very important to performance.
When Brian Manzella refers to the ability to have impact with a golfer on the lesson tee without improving fitness he is referring to impacting activity specific coordination. If the success the Brian has with a student is long term then he has in fact had an impact on coordination and muscular recruitment patterns which is a very functional form of "fitness".
A product like ZenoLink just focuses the effort of biomechanical functional coordination training and actually can and should be used with more fitness based products like TPI for optimal success.
Anyone truly interested in better understanding ZenoLink can contact me directly and I will spend time in a very open way explaining what we do, how we do it and the pros/cons. I will also try to reply to this forum as I can but since I don't frequent the forums it is tough for me to keep up to date.
thanks, chris
I was on this forum posting in another thread and saw this thread TPI vs. ZenoLink so thought I would post a few quick thoughts.
As far as ZenoLink goes... ZenoLink is not a fitness based product like TPI. It is a biomechanical, optical 6dof 3-D motion based FUNCTIONAL ASSESSMENT product. Understanding what that means is very important. In many ways comparing TPI and ZenoLink is like apples to oranges. ZenoLink focuses on coordination and biomechanical activity specific function where TPI focuses more on anatomical function - both are very important to performance.
When Brian Manzella refers to the ability to have impact with a golfer on the lesson tee without improving fitness he is referring to impacting activity specific coordination. If the success the Brian has with a student is long term then he has in fact had an impact on coordination and muscular recruitment patterns which is a very functional form of "fitness".
A product like ZenoLink just focuses the effort of biomechanical functional coordination training and actually can and should be used with more fitness based products like TPI for optimal success.
Anyone truly interested in better understanding ZenoLink can contact me directly and I will spend time in a very open way explaining what we do, how we do it and the pros/cons. I will also try to reply to this forum as I can but since I don't frequent the forums it is tough for me to keep up to date.
thanks, chris
Todd Dugan
New
Bingo! Isn't it amazing that once you get a guy to square the clubface to his plane at impact, suddenly the "physical limitations" that were causing his over-the-top move disappear? There are sports medicine professionals out there right now diagnosing the swing that aren't fully-qualified to do so. Evaluate the body, fine. That's their field. Make the body better. No-brainer. But selling the idea that you "can't" hit it solid and straight with the body that you presently have is false advertising.
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