Trackman data
- Thread starter Damon Lucas
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mjstrong
New
Great stuff!
Very interesting articles. It seems that a lot of the top players (Tiger, Phil, etc.) average negative attack angles. Fred Funk, known for driving accuracy, maintains an average attack angle of -2.3 degrees. Even Bubba Watson seemed to alter his swing towards a negative attack angle when accuracy was more important (speculation on my part) and hit up on it more when distance was the bigger priority.
I'd like to again draw attention to the thread about a potential trade off between optimal impact conditions and optimal launch conditions. It seems like hitting down on the ball is quite common for most of today's top players.
I also found it interesting that attack angle had very little effect on spin rate. I wonder if it is going to be extremely common for TOUR players to practice in front of these things now a days.
EDIT: Link added: http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9469&highlight=optimal
Very interesting articles. It seems that a lot of the top players (Tiger, Phil, etc.) average negative attack angles. Fred Funk, known for driving accuracy, maintains an average attack angle of -2.3 degrees. Even Bubba Watson seemed to alter his swing towards a negative attack angle when accuracy was more important (speculation on my part) and hit up on it more when distance was the bigger priority.
I'd like to again draw attention to the thread about a potential trade off between optimal impact conditions and optimal launch conditions. It seems like hitting down on the ball is quite common for most of today's top players.
I also found it interesting that attack angle had very little effect on spin rate. I wonder if it is going to be extremely common for TOUR players to practice in front of these things now a days.
EDIT: Link added: http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9469&highlight=optimal
Last edited:
James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
Does anyone know what a typical attack angle would be for a pitching wedge, 7-iron and a 3-iron? Thanks
NEED to hit it 300
Best thing about all this Trackman stuff is the average player (like me) can see that not every PGA Tour player swings the club 125mph and hits it 300 yards. Yesterday on the final hole at the Bob Hope, Justin Leonard swings driver 109mph and carries it 230 yards. They had a few "celebrities" swinging it faster than Leonard but (to the best of my knowledge) none of them are past major champions.
Best thing about all this Trackman stuff is the average player (like me) can see that not every PGA Tour player swings the club 125mph and hits it 300 yards. Yesterday on the final hole at the Bob Hope, Justin Leonard swings driver 109mph and carries it 230 yards. They had a few "celebrities" swinging it faster than Leonard but (to the best of my knowledge) none of them are past major champions.
thefuture37
Banned
Yeah but he half shanked that drive. They should show what his ballspeed was on that. I'm sure his normal good contact 109SS drive carries alot further than 230.
birdie_man
New
Hell yes.
ok maybe
ok, maybe that was a bad example but overall there is a major misconception that Tour players ALL hit 300 yard drives, hit 200 yard six irons, etc. etc.
I also believe the average golfer also exaggerates how far they themselves hit it off the tee. I love reading the posts that are like "I hit it pretty good (300+) off the tee but could use some help getting a few extra yards"
in years past, I also remember the Kapalua data being a little skewed (e.g., 400 yard drives) because of the wind, elevation changes, roll out on the fairway, etc.
ok, maybe that was a bad example but overall there is a major misconception that Tour players ALL hit 300 yard drives, hit 200 yard six irons, etc. etc.
I also believe the average golfer also exaggerates how far they themselves hit it off the tee. I love reading the posts that are like "I hit it pretty good (300+) off the tee but could use some help getting a few extra yards"
in years past, I also remember the Kapalua data being a little skewed (e.g., 400 yard drives) because of the wind, elevation changes, roll out on the fairway, etc.
Jared Willerson
Super Moderator
Leonard also had one tee shot that had a SS of 107 and he carried it 296 and it rolled out to 311. Trahan was longer by 20 yards all day.
What was interesting is that on holes where they both hit 3 wood Leonard was even or a bit longer in distance than Trahan
What was interesting is that on holes where they both hit 3 wood Leonard was even or a bit longer in distance than Trahan
thefuture37
Banned
mjstrong
New
That's why I like the TrackMan, because it is simply reading what has actually happened, not theorizing the final result. Because of win, elevation, air temperature, roll, etc. some drives DO go 400 yards. That same drive (ball speed, launch angle, spin rate) may only go 280 in different conditions. I just wish that they would show more complete information, but too much information may not be the most "broadcast friendly" way to do it...
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Average Swing speed on tour is roughly 112mph
112mph x 2.45 ~ 275 yards of carry with a "theorectial" 100% efficient carry distance of 280 yards. I did a post on this previously, do a search and you will see the metrics that i use to come up with this.
To compare the other poster's comment: 109mph x 2.45 ~ 267 yards of carry. So the 230 yards of carry could have been poor launch conditions, into the wind, or poor contact resulting in a loss of ball speed.
112mph x 2.45 ~ 275 yards of carry with a "theorectial" 100% efficient carry distance of 280 yards. I did a post on this previously, do a search and you will see the metrics that i use to come up with this.
To compare the other poster's comment: 109mph x 2.45 ~ 267 yards of carry. So the 230 yards of carry could have been poor launch conditions, into the wind, or poor contact resulting in a loss of ball speed.
Spinning driver
"Yes! It turns out that if you hit down or up on the ball with the same club, the spin rate will be more or less identical if you impact the ball on the same spot on the face. This is in contradiction to the myth saying that hitting down on the ball increases the spin rate."
Quote from trackman article
"Yes! It turns out that if you hit down or up on the ball with the same club, the spin rate will be more or less identical if you impact the ball on the same spot on the face. This is in contradiction to the myth saying that hitting down on the ball increases the spin rate."
Quote from trackman article
James Marshall (Hogan1953)
New member
So, is it more the quality of the contact that counts rather than the attack angle that produces more spin?
thefuture37
Banned
Do they also take into account the effective loft of the club at impact?
"Yes, actually you do not change the spin rate by hitting more down or up on the ball with the same club, assuming that the ball is impacted on the same spot on the face. Simplified slightly, the correlations are: Attack angle changes the launch angle, with club loft, including shaft flex, changing the spin rate.
When you hit more up on the ball, the launch angle will be higher but the spin rate will be virtually the same. The spin rate is dictated primarily by the spin loft and impact position on the club face. The spin loft is the difference between the dynamic loft and the attack angle. The spin loft is virtually constant for a given club. Of course, also the ball and club characteristics play an important role in the generation of spin."
From trackman "attack angle"
When you hit more up on the ball, the launch angle will be higher but the spin rate will be virtually the same. The spin rate is dictated primarily by the spin loft and impact position on the club face. The spin loft is the difference between the dynamic loft and the attack angle. The spin loft is virtually constant for a given club. Of course, also the ball and club characteristics play an important role in the generation of spin."
From trackman "attack angle"
Dariusz J.
New member
The most important factor responsible for creating spin is loft. The ball does not know what is the loft of the driver that hits it. Thus, what difference to a ball is if it's being hit with a, say, 13 degree driver and 0* AofA comparing to 10 degree driver and +3* AofA ? The "angle" (i.e. loft) at what the ball is being hit is always 13* in both cases.
Is this what Trackman studies want to tell us ?
Cheers
Is this what Trackman studies want to tell us ?
Cheers
But if you use a 13* and have a -3* AofAt the launch will then be lower, just as if you have a 5* and have a +5* AofAt it will go higher.
Trackman can help you to hit farther or straighter.
Dariusz J.
New member
...it'll go higher because you will hit the ball "below its equator" that is parallel to the ground with a 5* AofA ? just as you would stay at a ground that is 5 degrees uphill and hit ball's equator that is angled 5* in relation to the ground ?
Cheers
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Now i'm not going to pretend i know more than the Trackman people, but does anyone want to take a shot at why i bolded the two words above and it's significant in this thread?
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