Trailing elbow in backswing

[southpaw]

I realize this is more of a debate forum, but I thought I'd throw this "swing improvement" question out there: How do I preserve the 90* angle in my trailing elbow and improve the width in my backswing? I want to get rid of my overswing. I realize that there might be other "options" per TGM, but I want this question answered...

... and thank you.

 

[Redgoat]

southpaw,

In most cases, your lack of width is caused by a faulty pivot. In other words, the arm isn't losing it's extension/stability because it is weak, but instead your body is leaning in the wrong direction ie. upper body back towards the target. If you maintain the forward lean in your upper body to the top, it is quite difficult to get the club to, let alone past parallel.

Try connecting your tummy to your spine at set-up and maintaining this feel to the top (and to impact ). This will help you keep your forward lean and stabilize your pivot. Your arms should follow suit. Last thing, TGM encourages "extensior action" which is to say the trail arm is always pushing against the lead arm. This may also help get you where you want to be.

Check out this link for a visual aid...
http://www.hpphoto.com/servlet/Link...04-19bc-15fbc1973e69&size=]Redgoat's pictures

Redgoat

 

[southpaw]

You mean as in a slight "pelvic tilt" to connect the spine with the stomach? Also, maybe a slight upper body lean away from the target helps, too.

Thanks. Great pics. Above and beyond the call of duty as usual, Redgoat.

 

[EdZ]

southpaw.... keep in mind that you basically rotate 'around' your spine - imagine you had an extention of your spine both up and down. Your 'entire' body moves around that, which is what 'getting behind the ball' is all about. In reality, you can and should keep a more stable base (the bottom of your spine should be the most stable NOT your head).

As you move through the shot, your entire body should again move 'around' the spine.

Think of throwing a ball... you coil up and move all your weight back onto your back leg, then release the entire body through to your front foot - same is basically true in golf.

Practice taking backswings lifting your left foot up and even kicking it past your right, as in throwing a pitch, then stepping through and 'throwing', picking up the ball along the way...and lifting your back foot in the throughswing... it's not a hit, it is a motion.

Watch Ricky Barnes... and don't be afraid to let the left foot roll in and lift a bit to get behind the ball. Once you get the right 'feel', you can stablize the 'hub' of your spine.

Good footwork and weightshift are VERY important.

 

[Redgoat]

EdZ,

Not to be contradictory but Ricky Barnes?

Watch Ricky Barnes... and don't be afraid to let the left foot roll in and lift a bit to get behind the ball. Once you get the right 'feel', you can stablize the 'hub' of your spine

If the ball position is good and there is a little tilt, you are already behind the ball.

Good players start behind the ball and move into it. Bad players start ahead of the ball and spend the rest of the swing trying to get behind it.

Redgoat

 

[EdZ]

Just thought he was a good example of coil allowing the left foot to come up... ala Jack in the past. And yes, getting behind the ball is key, but shifting of the weight (i.e. force) is what being behind the ball is about IMO.... just like throwing a pitch. Indeed, that force needs to be 'stable' and 'balanced', but I like to have people exagerate some moves to understand them, then they can back off and 'get' the right amount...moving into the ball, flowing with the club and the 'force' (yes, pun intended, but accurate IMO)

 

[bcoak]

Davis Love would be a better example of foot raised to get behind. It will be inteesting to see if Ricky B ever makes it. Swing is loose and he looks like he has the yips at times.

 

[benhogan54]

EdZ,
Have you ever read or seen anything from Jimmy Ballard? His entire approach is about coil and loading/unloading weight. Just curious if you have ever been into his approach. Basically connect the left arm to the chest and coil behind the ball and then uncoil through to the finish. Thanks.

 

[EdZ]

benhogan54... yes, I think Ballard is one of the better teachers, and his book and theories are a must read. I don't think people should take his theories too far though, but they are important to understand indeed, and better than most. I prefer to focus on keeping my hands and chest turning together, rather than on stiff 'connection' of the upper arms... everything must 'flow'. If you take Ballard's ideas, and allow your body to flow with the club, your hands and chest will stay in synch naturally... "connection" happens given good balance and weight shift.

that said, many golfers would do well to focus on the left arm/chest connection, to learn the feel of the whole body turning through the shot, and what a real 'release' is.

Ballard, Hogan, Knudson, Snead... all have more in common than not IMO. They all understood the importance of balance, and how best to achieve it.

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by EdZ

benhogan54... yes, I think Ballard is one of the better teachers, and his book and theories are a must read. I don't think people should take his theories too far though, but they are important to understand indeed, and better than most.

Oh yeah, as Ballard says, we don't want any angles in the swing [*rolls eyes*]. Or were you talking about how the shoulders should be level? [*rolls eyes*]

 

[EdZ]

I was refering to his main theory of "connection" - as I said, I wouldn't take his theories too far, but they are worth understanding.

 

[denny]

Many students can not seperate what is sound advice with what should be avoided.He does not teach pivot plane or lag well.He could partially help a drop slider.And how to get back of left hand pointing to ground . And he does well in showing how #4 power accumulater works. He has a method unlike most famous teachers who say nothing but homonginized crap.

 

[cdog]

Ballard does want a level shoulder turn....but he does not say how it would affect the transition, to bad, incomplete instruction.

 

[benhogan54]

Ballard can't be all that bad. The list of players he has helped in the past is pretty impressive.

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by benhogan54

Ballard can't be all that bad. The list of players he has helped in the past is pretty impressive.

Which is why I don't understand how Leadbetter can have such a bad reputation among many...

He has as detailed a method as any of the 'BIG NAME' teachers.

 

[denny]

Chinese saying ` TO know and not to do is not to know ` Lead ,Flick and other trouble shooters should never demonstrate for a camera. Why does't Lead and others give credit where they learned their stuff.

 

[ragman]

quote:Originally posted by denny

Chinese saying ` TO know and not to do is not to know `

Confucious saying?

Obivously, that doesn't apply to golf instructors.

TGM AI's are supposed to know different ways to match components, right?

quote:Lead ,Flick and other trouble shooters should never demonstrate for a camera.

Why not?

Lead, Butch, etc. all demonstrate VERY willingly.

quote:Why does't Lead and others give credit where they learned their stuff.

Does Brian Manzella always give credit for where he learned his stuff?

Does Chuck Evans?

 

[rosser]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by denny

Chinese saying ` TO know and not to do is not to know `

Speaking of Chinese in Golf! Teachers? Credit?
The Mind of a perfect man is like a mirror. It grasp nothing. It expects nothing. It reflects but does not hold. Therefore, the perfect man can act without effort. Chuang-Tzu

The less effort, the faster and more powerful you will be. Bruce Lee
Even Bruce Lee constantly gave credit to his master of whom gave credit to there masters.

As for golf, yes there are masters to, only a few. As you can see there are a lot of want to be's. All should continue to take credit for nothing, but constantly give credit to the masters or the source.

It is inspiring to know that even masters have masters, and that we are all learners.

As for the topic of how to perserve the 90* angle in the trailing arm? Taking the club back with the upper left arm, staying soft with the right elbow and not tight. allowing the shoulders to continue to turn, making a pivot more diagonally not around, understanding its a throwing action. Taking it back with too much hands and arms leaves the torso out of the swing. Reverse this if your left handed. Once this is understood overswinging has left the building.

 

[djd]

rosser- you mentioned that the pivot should be made "more diagonally, not around" - could you please explain the distinction. thanks.

 

[rosser]

djd Your have mail!