Two "Project 1.68" Findings

[Brian Manzella]

We had another thread on this that went sideways...here is another try...with a certain person on the sidelines...

The following are two of the findings in our Project 1.68 study.

• The path of the "grip point" (identified as the point on the grip underneath the overlap location of the
hands) in many golf swings, should reach its lowest point near the right leg, well before impact.
​

• Approximately 70-75% of the work the body does in the golf downswing, goes into moving the body. Meaning only the remainder actually goes into the powering the golf club.

​

Work is a form of energy. Power is the rate at which work is being done.

Power = work/time or more generally, Power = energy/time.

Energy has many forms: work (force x distance or torque x rotation),
electrical, kinetic, solar, chemical, thermal, etc.

Energy changes form very easily. Rub your hands together - you just
converted chemical energy in your body to mechanical energy (work) of your
muscles to thermal energy in your skin (from friction). But.....you can't
always reverse the process - that is what entropy is.

 

[birly-shirly]

Cool. Have you any insights on how the 70 - 75% might vary? I'm guessing that the guys you're working with have been looking at good swings and that 30% is pretty much the upper limit on the "efficiency" of transmitting energy to the clubhead.

Are shorter-hitting amateurs much more inefficient in transmitting pivot force - or do they just not generate as much force in the first place?

 

[siksta]

The two findings are not only 100% correct in my opinion but there's a certain camp out there that teaches this.

 

[finncox]

Brian,

What is the "takeaway" from the finding regarding the body's transfer of energy? Should we focus less on adding the "umph" with our bodies, since a lot of that energy doesn't make it to the club?

Should we focus on more arm/hand speed?

 

[chipingguru]

Which part of the body is performing the work to move the body on the downswing, but not powering the club?

The lowpoint of the grip point is interesting. That would mean the hands move a bit higher from the right leg to impact, while the club head moves lower?

 

[Michael Finney]

The two findings are not only 100% correct in my opinion but there's a certain camp out there that teaches this.

which camp would that be?....how do they teach the work/power ratio?

 

[threeputt]

The lowpoint of the grip point is interesting. That would mean the hands move a bit higher from the right leg to impact, while the club head moves lower?

It makes sense to me - because isn't the left (front shoulder) moving UP during that same interval? Axis tilt ?

 

[chipingguru]

I agree with the axis tilt and (hopefully) left shoulder going up, I guess I am wondering about how the clubhead reaches lowpoint after impact (if that is still a valid concept) while the hands are rising from right leg to impact.

Or I may be misinterptreting (likely am) about whether the hands rise from the point the grip center reaches its lowpoint then proceeds to impact. Perhaps the level stays the same?

 

[threeputt]

Just a guess .. The hands/wrists are uncoiling during that interval to deliver a desirable position at impact. While the hands/wrists are doing this - the clubhead is moving DOWN ...

 

[chipingguru]

Sounds right to me. I suppose as the project moves along it will be explained why it is optimal to have the grip center at lowpoint near the right leg and then how to achieve it.

I guess it isn't an "imperative" or anything snce it was mentioned not everyone good does it that way.

 

[footwedge]

Where is the right leg at that moment? what is the angle of the grip at that point, is it verticle or at an angle?

 

[chipingguru]

After looking at a bunch of swings, the finding looks correct. The grip point is at lowest point about the right leg area, and gets a bit higher at impact.

 

[btp]

We had another thread on this that went sideways...here is another try...with a certain person on the sidelines...

The following are two of the findings in our Project 1.68 study.

• The path of the "grip point" (identified as the point on the grip underneath the overlap location of the
hands) in many golf swings, should reach its lowest point near the right leg, well before impact.
​

• Approximately 70-75% of the work the body does in the golf downswing, goes into moving the body. Meaning only the remainder actually goes into the powering the golf club.

​

Work is a form of energy. Power is the rate at which work is being done.

Power = work/time or more generally, Power = energy/time.

Energy has many forms: work (force x distance or torque x rotation),
electrical, kinetic, solar, chemical, thermal, etc.

Energy changes form very easily. Rub your hands together - you just
converted chemical energy in your body to mechanical energy (work) of your
muscles to thermal energy in your skin (from friction). But.....you can't
always reverse the process - that is what entropy is.

In what ways would those two findings affect the way you teach?

 

[duckjr78]

We had another thread on this that went sideways...here is another try...with a certain person on the sidelines...

The following are two of the findings in our Project 1.68 study.

• The path of the "grip point" (identified as the point on the grip underneath the overlap location of the
hands) in many golf swings, should reach its lowest point near the right leg, well before impact.
​

This may have finally hit home for me.

I have been trying to get my hands "target-ward" for so long so that they were ahead of the clubhead at impact that I never realized that I need the "down" part of the downswing. Pushing/pulling my hands toward the target only slowed them down, forcing the club to pass my hands. Flippy flipperton.

Getting them down (around the right leg) should allow the pivot to take care of the forward, thus keeping the hands from slowing to soon and getting them ahead of the clubhead. Stick the hula hoop in the ground and then yank it out. I was dragging the stinkin' hula hoop along the ground. Then hands will move slightly up, pulled by the jump, while the wrists unhinge, allowing the low point of the clubhead to be after the ball while the low point of the hands is actually behind the ball. These simultaneous upward and downward movements may be what allows a nice long flat-ish spot at the bottom of the swing that great ballstrikers enjoy. This idea may help keep my tailbone ahead of my neckbone as well. Hmmmm.....

The divots in the front yard look nice to me. :wifeshakesheadmad:

Next is to try it on a ball!

 

[natep]

If I'm not mistaken, the grip also moves in, away from the target line, after reaching its low point by the right thigh.

 

[savydan]

What a waste of energy golf is!!!

 

[hp12c]

I like these little tidbits of info and cant wait for the whole enchilda to be presented and to see much more clarity in the murky waters of golf instruction. Go bmanz go Bmanz go go go, what a suck up I am.

 

[Billy McKinney]

My take: Picture a shrug. The left shoulder complex pulling upward through impact supplies a very nice extra percentage of momentum transfer and parametric acceleration. I was with Brian when he turned into a power hitter doing this.

 

[Bonesy]

is this threat too important to be on the 2nd page already?

 

[Phil Rosenbaum]

Things happen fast around here, maybe we can sticky this thread.