Useless info?

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Hi Buds, I've been inactive for a while, reading the forum was not so much fun for me lately. It was getting a bit tedious with the same argument being rehashed constantly.

But anyway, I started thinking about the whole thing this morning after a brief visit to the forum and would like to ask the following question if I may:

How can you possibly teach someone to peak their velocities at the right time? I mean, we're talking about split seconds here.
 
Hey Wulsy,


Anyway, I believe you have a valid point. Trying to do a lot of what we discuss in "a blink of an eye" does seem a but folly. BUT, we might as well take it to the end and learn as much as we can. You never know. Just the idea that a segment reaches a peak speed earlier could give a player an impetus to create an eventual change in their current motion.

Another thing, useless information can be cool cause when you trying to help some a-hole who thinks he knows more than you, you can blast him back into reality with the great information that Brian and his team are graciously sharing with us. Sometimes humbling a student is the most important lesson you can give, FACT!
 
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Serious question.

If every player on the Tour were to get on a 6DOF 3-D machine, for scientific purposes, never looking at their #'s or having them analyzed, would each segment reach top speed and fit nicely into corridors, regardless of the age of the golfer or speed of the swing?

Even if there are "outliers", do they all reach peak speed in the same sequence?
 
Interesting answers.

All in all I agree with Lindsey's idea about knowledge seldom being a bad thing. The problem being of course, as Frans and ekenn say, what do we really KNOW?

Feel vs real, science vs pseudo science, ways of measuring flawed and/or inadequate, insufficient quantity of data, etc are several of the issues which cast doubt on whether we actually know things or just think that we know them.

And let's not forget: scientists are like golf teachers - they all want to be right.
 
Just an observation...I would love some feedback.

Stand facing a wall in your golf posture and place your palms on the wall about chest high. Now turn and stretch your hips/pelvis toward the target as far as they will go.

Now start over, but this time turn so the wall is directly 90 degrees to your right. Take your golf posture, turn your upper body to the right and place your palms on the wall again. Now turn and stretch your hips toward the target as far as they will go...its tough to get back to square.

My point (and I have one) is that because the upper body and spine are rotating to the right so far in the backswing and are the last thing to fire from the top, that the frame of reference, as far as how far the hips can even travel, is 90 degrees to the right of the target line...therefore, assuming that a player makes a huge pivot, keeps their back to the target as long as they can, creates a dynamic lower body pivot to begin the downswing, eventually the hips/pelvis will reach their max stretch well before impact.

It seems to me, that if that were to happen, a graph may show a massive deceleration, or in the case of a player as flexible as Rory, a complete stop or reversal.

Just a thought...
 
Serious question.

If every player on the Tour were to get on a 6DOF 3-D machine, for scientific purposes, never looking at their #'s or having them analyzed, would each segment reach top speed and fit nicely into corridors, regardless of the age of the golfer or speed of the swing?

Even if there are "outliers", do they all reach peak speed in the same sequence?

No
 

ej20

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Useless info to one person - valuable to another.....

this is a free site, enjoy the useful along with the perceived useless
This is why cameras,3D machines,trackman and to a certain extent instructors are merely tools for the player.

The person truly responsible for building a functional real game swing will always be the one that uses the swing.

Hogan wasn't kidding when he said to dig it out of the dirt.These days,we have more shovels at our disposal.
 

art

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Just an observation...I would love some feedback.

Stand facing a wall in your golf posture and place your palms on the wall about chest high. Now turn and stretch your hips/pelvis toward the target as far as they will go.

Now start over, but this time turn so the wall is directly 90 degrees to your right. Take your golf posture, turn your upper body to the right and place your palms on the wall again. Now turn and stretch your hips toward the target as far as they will go...its tough to get back to square.

My point (and I have one) is that because the upper body and spine are rotating to the right so far in the backswing and are the last thing to fire from the top, that the frame of reference, as far as how far the hips can even travel, is 90 degrees to the right of the target line...therefore, assuming that a player makes a huge pivot, keeps their back to the target as long as they can, creates a dynamic lower body pivot to begin the downswing, eventually the hips/pelvis will reach their max stretch well before impact.

It seems to me, that if that were to happen, a graph may show a massive deceleration, or in the case of a player as flexible as Rory, a complete stop or reversal.

Just a thought...

Dear Erik,

Thanks for the post and also the PM. I will answer you here, and acknowledge that I know how it feels to 'end' a string with no feedback. I too have rushed back to the computer several times a day, many times, only to be disappointed to see mine as the last posting, or what hurts worse, a 'sideways' thread-jack, or a response to what I believed to be a much less important previous post.

So here goes with your observations and my mini-experiences regarding your observations.

How the 'power', or club head velocity develops during the down swing is absolutely the peak of my passion in seeking 'golf truth'. Not just HOW, but WHERE, and most importantly to me, HOW MUCH from WHERE??? My present understanding comes from reviewing without question over a thousand research papers and if each frame of a video is itself an input in search of an answer, certainly 'millions' of movement, wrinkles in shirts and pants, shadows on the ground etc, etc, ad nauseam.

Erik, it changes every swing, and is different with every golfer, but fortunately I have found a few significant 'common' characteristics that do affect the kinematic sequencing both favorably and unfavorably, and find your observations very interesting and intuitively right on.

I have previously posted being at the 'Golf Academy of America' in Carlsbad California with Phil Cheetham and all the instructors at the Academy for their re-education and 'Certification' on the AMM/TPI 3D 6DOF system. The Director of Instruction performed 6 different swing types including his version of 2 long drive/maximum club head velocity swings, and fortunately for me/us, one swing with 'better' dynamic balance, after a one minute lesson. The resulting kinematic sequence as chosen BEST by the instructors, not Phil or me, was the research base behind BBKIB, and what I named in 2007 a BODIGolf (Body Optimized by Dynamic Integration) swing and this area Erik, IMO holds the key for all golfers to continuously improve.

How this Director of Instruction 'developed' a better kinematic sequence and WHERE and HOW the inter and intra muscle groups/slings stretch shorten cycles were affected, is, and will remain for some time TBD, "To Be Determined", by people like you and others on this and hopefully other sites. What I 'THINK' I know now, with specific regard to your post, is that the velocity-dependent nature of all the bodies muscles and associated tendons IMO establishes for each of these force/torque producing devices 'best' inertial positions (3D) during the transition and down swing that DRAMATICALLY affect the golfers kinematic sequencing, FOR THAT SWING.

Now for the good part.

IMO, and every day supported and updated by thoughts and 'prayers' for better insights, I believe WITHOUT DOUBT that our Creator/Evolver has endowed our body (and of course brain) with the capability to 'optimize' all movements we ask of it. The reason I am so OPPOSED to golf tips and micro moves is that our Creator/Evolver also provided us with free will to choose, so I have chosen BODIGolf, BODY OPTIMIZED......, and have found by limited analyses and experiment at this time that dynamic balance and stability margin of the lower body very significantly and positively affects a golfers kinematic sequence and resulting performance.

So, back to your observations, without any doubt in my mind Erik, any 'forced' increases in ranges of motion (NOT body optimized) IMO will skew the heck out of the natural kinematic sequence and activate the 'antagonistic' muscle counterparts of the 'accelerator' muscle groups prematurely further affecting the shape of the graphs.

Finally, what I believe all golfers are seeking is continuous improvement towards an ever changing personal and unique level of 'potential'.
 
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