Weir changes swing and teacher....

[JohnThomas1]

Comments from Mike Weir in the Globe and Mail:

"I liked what I was hearing about Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer from my former college roommate and friend Dean Wilson, who was working with them. Dean won his first tournament on tour last year, and we talked a lot about how they saw the swing.

I liked the way I hit the ball from the time I first worked with them. They teach a swing where you don't transfer weight on your backswing. Their studies show that the great ball-strikers such as Sam Snead, Ben Hogan and Jack Nicklaus were over the ball, not behind it at the top of the swing. It's been feeling more and more natural to me every tournament."

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

here's why this works on tour:

1) Almost every BAD GOLFER tends to reverse pivot and lean too far left.
2) Almost every GOOD GOLFER tends to hang back and lean too far right.

So if you take all these good golfers on tour who all tend to swing A BIT too inside/out and lean a bit too far right at the top of their backswing to FEEL like they don't "transfer their weight" what's gonna happen?

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

here's why this works on tour:

1) Almost every BAD GOLFER tends to reverse pivot and lean too far left.
2) Almost every GOOD GOLFER tends to hang back and lean too far right.

So if you take all these good golfers on tour who all tend to swing A BIT too inside/out and lean a bit too far right at the top of their backswing to FEEL like they don't "transfer their weight" what's gonna happen?

I would say its a bit more misunderstood than this. So what pattern do they teach? What axis tilt. Where is the head when it starts?
Really I would gather they place the head at the impact position.
The COG just works from there, I really would not say thats a reverse pivot.

However could your head move sure, driving right arm thrust, head moving forward a little bit.Good face,clubhead and shaft action.
Same goes the other way head backing up.

For me personally my head positions are never the problem it’s the eye planes that get messed up if my head moves. When my head moves back, my eyes tilt to the right. This creates a broken plane in my motion. So really I would gather broken planes are poor planes.

So in short if a guy has a problem such as a bad head, this is one way to fix it. IE Wier had a neck problem.In Brian defense (because he is a great guy and one of the best teachers I have ever seen) he worked with Toms. His head moved from what I see. His Eye lines are a 10/10. So would he need to fix this maybe not? If I had a guy like that I would not worry much about it and see how his actions are.

 

[puttmad]

So if you don't transfer weight on the backswing, what do you do on the downswing....less weight to get onto your left side?....

Seems like you'd lose a whole load of distance that way....

 

[bray]

So if you don't transfer weight on the backswing, what do you do on the downswing....less weight to get onto your left side?....

Seems like you'd lose a whole load of distance that way....

Puttmad,

I don't believe that a lack of weight transfer on the backswing always results in lack of weight transfer at impact....

In my work with FORSE Plates, during training on the device we were told that the weight should be 60 percent on the back foot at the top of the backswing and then seventy percent on the lead foot(left foot for rightys) at impact. However I found that these numbers don't always have to work with in this range the weight can stay 50/50 between the feet or centered on the backswing, and than transfer to the left foot on the downswing.....for some player's this was actually easier to do.

The moment of truth is impact you want to have weight transfering to your left side at impact.

Sorting Through the Duffers Bible using modern technology to better understand the G.O.L.F. Swing.

B-Ray

 

[bcoak]

Wison should be gettingn finders fee. Faxon recently went to P&B after watching him hit balls. They told Fax "We use your swing as an example of what not to do."

 

[puttmad]

MMMMmmmmm....

I just wonder how well your avearge pitcher would throw without the weight going on to the back foot like they do before the throw.........

 

[DOCW3]

Communications

Is Weir saying they are "simplifying" how to reach Hogan's position or is there a conclusion that Hogan did not transfer weight to get there?

Comments from Mike Weir in the Globe and Mail:

"I liked what I was hearing about Mike Bennett and Andy Plummer from my former college roommate and friend Dean Wilson, who was working with them. Dean won his first tournament on tour last year, and we talked a lot about how they saw the swing.

I liked the way I hit the ball from the time I first worked with them. They teach a swing where you don't transfer weight on your backswing. Their studies show that the great ball-strikers such as Sam Snead, Ben Hogan and Jack Nicklaus were over the ball, not behind it at the top of the swing. It's been feeling more and more natural to me every tournament."

 

[bray]

I do not know enough about pitching to comment on how pitchers move.

However there is a break even point here.....the more you shift weight to the back foot the greater amount of force you can create by shifting your weight to the left foot coming through, as long as you get enough of your weight shifted left (70%). If you shift to much weight going back then it's hard to get back to that left side at impact....

Example a right handed player shifts his weight going back so that he has 80% of his weight on his right foot in the back swing he must now get to 70% of his weight on his left foot at impact...thats a pretty big change in a short amount of time.
A player that has 50% of his weight on his right foot at the top has a lot less motion or change to get to 70% of his weight on his left.....and that's why it works on tour, maybe not as powerful but less movement is more accurate for most tour player's.

By the way in my own teaching I see a lot of amatuers with true reverse pivots and poor weight shift which leads to lack of power and inconsistency for those player's I like a weight shift back of around 60% on a FORSE plate.

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook.

B-Ray

 

[dodger]

Dana Dahlquist hits on this issue very well. I have a fusion in my neck which limits some mobility. As as result, my head has a tendency to move back towards my heels and to the right if I try to make a big weight shift to the right. This makes it impossible to swing left after impact, causing a flip-hook and an extreme inside out swing. If I "feel" planted on the left side, there is less head movement, clean impact and less flip. However, if you don't tilt the teacup, you get a thin low shot with little penetration. As Dana says, there is a reason why this works with some golfers. I am curious though if B/P teaches this swing to the average 24 handicap slicer?

 

[GeG]

Here is a chort video i captured from yesterday when Weir was practicing at the driving range at Augusta.

http://www.zshare.net/video/weir-practice-wmv.html

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

You are all missing the point, none of those guys that i have seen (even have some of elk on the range with one of them) actually LOOK like their practice swings.

THEY ARE FEELS! To get them from leaning too far to the right at the top of the backswing which a lot of good players will TEND TO do from time to time. This leads to all kinds of issues that i'm not going to go into.

It's the same idea when Brian or I take a slicer with a reverse pivot and get them to almost FEEL LIKE they are SWAYING in the backswing. They need that FEEL because they have leaned so far LEFT for so long.

Ask Wolfman, he was the same way.

 

[Dana Dahlquist]

Jim,
I do get your point. I am not saying thats not true. Bennett is big on making sure that they get the FEEL.
I belive my statement before was very close to your point.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim,
I do get your point. I am not saying thats not true. Bennett is big on making sure that they get the FEEL.
I belive my statement before was very close to your point.

Sorry, shouldn't have said "all." Just trying to help people understand that this feeling of "leaning left" really isn't going to help your average golfer.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Hey, whatever works.

Jimmy Ballard is a MILLIONAIRE because the "top teachers" of the day in the mid-60's and throught the 70's taught a STEEP shoulder turn and NO RIGHT SIDE.

So, basically, I hope Weir and Dean Wilson finish 1, 2 in the Masters'.

I know it can work to some degree for a TOUR player if they are FLEXIBILE and know how to generate pivot force already. I wouldn't think it is great for everyone. In fact, I know it isn't.

They are doing their best to help their players.

If they would have learned from Brian Manzella instead of Mac O'Grady they would be JUST as successful, becuase they would have a solution or two for common "good player" problems.

Best of luck to them.

 

[bray]

Jimmy Ballard is a MILLIONAIRE because the "top teachers" of the day in the mid-60's and throught the 70's taught a STEEP shoulder turn and NO RIGHT SIDE.

So, basically, I hope Weir and Dean Wilson finish 1, 2 in the Masters'.

I know can work to some degree for a TOUR player if they are FLEXIBILE and know how to generate pivot force already. I wouldn't think it is great for everyone. In fact, I know it isn't.

They are doing their best to help their players.

If they would have learned from Brian Manzella instead of Mac O'Grady they would be JUST as successful, becuase they would have a solution or two for common "good player" problems.

Best of luck to them.

Brian,

This is one of the classiest responses I've seen on your site. With comments like those you will be Top 100 soon!!!

Sorting Through the Instructor's Textbook in my own quest to be a great teacher like Brian Manzella and David Orr.

B-Ray