What does lag feel like?

[Brian Manzella]

Ok, Ok...I get it.

So you need more TRIGGER DELAY/Accumulator lag huh?

You need to work on the "hurdle drill" in flipper, in conjunction with all the stuff we worked on in New Orleans.

 

[ClubCaster]

So you need more TRIGGER DELAY/Accumulator lag huh?

You need to work on the "hurdle drill" in flipper, in conjunction with all the stuff we worked on in New Orleans.

Okay, I'm on it. Thanks Brian!

 

[rprevost]

I don't know if I understand the difference between casting and flipping. If you aren't flipping, casting, it seems to me, is another name for a circle-delivery path. Can y'all give me a quick explanation of the difference?

 

[self-mastery]

Do you hit the ball with power, precision, and accuracy?

 

[birdie_man]

You're an idiot!

(not meant as an insult)

 

[fronesis]

I don't know if I understand the difference between casting and flipping. If you aren't flipping, casting, it seems to me, is another name for a circle-delivery path. Can y'all give me a quick explanation of the difference?

If you go back a page you'll see in the middle of post no. 19 a pretty good explanation. But I'll also give it a try.

Flipping: breaking your left wrist before impact; having the club leaning 'back' (as seen from a face on view) at impact.

Casting: releasing the angle between the shaft and the arms (think left wrist cock, or think angle between right forearm and shaft) EARLY in the downswing rather than releasing that angle later in the downswing.

It seems to me that if you flip, then you have pretty much by definition cast as well; in any event, it doesn't really matter because the problems with flipping surely outweigh the problems with casting.

But I can see how it is possible to cast by way of an early release yet still get to the ball with a flat left wrist, i.e. no flip.

I assume here that the concern over this sort of casting-not-flipping swing would mainly be loss of clubhead speed.

My own guess is that if you are casting but not flipping that you are manipulating the clubhead and clubshaft too much with your arms and hands. If you swing with your pivot then the clubhead has to lag. If you bend your right wrist straight back on the backswing, and then hold that bent wrist as you begin the downswing with your pivot, then it's not clear to me how you could possibly cast. (Which is not to say that this guarantees good impact positions, but merely to point out that casting has to be caused by an early move to flatten the right wrist.)

 

[puttmad]

...

If you go back a page you'll see in the middle of post no. 19 a pretty good explanation. But I'll also give it a try.

Flipping: breaking your left wrist before impact; having the club leaning 'back' (as seen from a face on view) at impact.

Casting: releasing the angle between the shaft and the arms (think left wrist cock, or think angle between right forearm and shaft) EARLY in the downswing rather than releasing that angle later in the downswing.

It seems to me that if you flip, then you have pretty much by definition cast as well; in any event, it doesn't really matter because the problems with flipping surely outweigh the problems with casting.

But I can see how it is possible to cast by way of an early release yet still get to the ball with a flat left wrist, i.e. no flip.

I assume here that the concern over this sort of casting-not-flipping swing would mainly be loss of clubhead speed.

My own guess is that if you are casting but not flipping that you are manipulating the clubhead and clubshaft too much with your arms and hands. If you swing with your pivot then the clubhead has to lag. If you bend your right wrist straight back on the backswing, and then hold that bent wrist as you begin the downswing with your pivot, then it's not clear to me how you could possibly cast. (Which is not to say that this guarantees good impact positions, but merely to point out that casting has to be caused by an early move to flatten the right wrist.)

fronesis,

One factor with casting is that the lower body doesn't continue to pivot properly, it usually involves a curtailed or slow pivot. You CAN "cast" as long as your pivot is quick enought.....seems to be a contradiction to general teaching, but it works...

 

[holeout]

If you bend your right wrist straight back on the backswing, and then hold that bent wrist as you begin the downswing with your pivot, then it's not clear to me how you could possibly cast. (Which is not to say that this guarantees good impact positions, but merely to point out that casting has to be caused by an early move to flatten the right wrist.)

Not sure if this is accurate. If you flatten the right wrist, I would find it hard to believe you could not flip. Casting is more or less losing or "zeroing out" your accumulators, namely the right arm unfolding and the left wrist uncocking.

 

[wedgeplay]

very nice post

If you go back a page you'll see in the middle of post no. 19 a pretty good explanation. But I'll also give it a try.

Flipping: breaking your left wrist before impact; having the club leaning 'back' (as seen from a face on view) at impact.

Casting: releasing the angle between the shaft and the arms (think left wrist cock, or think angle between right forearm and shaft) EARLY in the downswing rather than releasing that angle later in the downswing.

It seems to me that if you flip, then you have pretty much by definition cast as well; in any event, it doesn't really matter because the problems with flipping surely outweigh the problems with casting.

But I can see how it is possible to cast by way of an early release yet still get to the ball with a flat left wrist, i.e. no flip.

I assume here that the concern over this sort of casting-not-flipping swing would mainly be loss of clubhead speed.

My own guess is that if you are casting but not flipping that you are manipulating the clubhead and clubshaft too much with your arms and hands. If you swing with your pivot then the clubhead has to lag. If you bend your right wrist straight back on the backswing, and then hold that bent wrist as you begin the downswing with your pivot, then it's not clear to me how you could possibly cast. (Which is not to say that this guarantees good impact positions, but merely to point out that casting has to be caused by an early move to flatten the right wrist.)

I really liked your explanation!

 

[Bronco Billy]

Do you hit the ball with power, precision, and accuracy?

Hey the OP doesn't Care About the Big Three(PPA)............ He just wants to get Rid if Casting/Flipping/Whatever.... Geeeees Big Jack and Tom Watson do PPA without even Late Releasing....... What a Strange Discussion.... Seems Like the Cart is Pushen the Horse.....
The One Guy even Gave a Detailed elaboration of differences between Flipping/Casting/Whatever..... My God he has a future in the Insurance Industry describing Car Wrecks......

 

[self-mastery]

Preaching to the choir, brotha

I don't believe that the late hit is requisite for hitting the long ball. I only asked to make the point you did about Big Jack. If you are hitting the ball well, then who cares if your swing doesn't have X component that most good golfer do.

 

[ClubCaster]

Hey the OP doesn't Care About the Big Three(PPA)............ He just wants to get Rid if Casting/Flipping/Whatever.... Geeeees Big Jack and Tom Watson do PPA without even Late Releasing....... What a Strange Discussion.... Seems Like the Cart is Pushen the Horse.....
The One Guy even Gave a Detailed elaboration of differences between Flipping/Casting/Whatever..... My God he has a future in the Insurance Industry describing Car Wrecks......

Preaching to the choir, brotha

I don't believe that the late hit is requisite for hitting the long ball. I only asked to make the point you did about Big Jack. If you are hitting the ball well, then who cares if your swing doesn't have X component that most good golfer do.

Bronco Billy and Self-Mastery,

As you can see in these photos, both Jack Nicklaus and Tom Watson do have a sharper than 90 degree angle between their right forearm and the clubshaft as they approach impact.

Virtually all tour players have this 90 degree or sharper angle. But you'd be hard pressed to find a high-handicapper that achieves this angle. As best I can determine, this is a matter of technique, not something that requires exceptional athletic ability, or skill. That's why I think that learning how to do it is the best thing I can do to become a better golfer. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone can find fault with that approach.

Thank you for sharing your concerns.

 

[Bronco Billy]

Bronco Billy and Self-Mastery,

As you can see in these photos, both Jack Nicklaus and Tom Watson do have a sharper than 90 degree angle between their right forearm and the clubshaft as they approach impact.

Virtually all tour players have this 90 degree or sharper angle. But you'd be hard pressed to find a high-handicapper that achieves this angle. As best I can determine, this is a matter of technique, not something that requires exceptional athletic ability, or skill. That's why I think that learning how to do it is the best thing I can do to become a better golfer. It's hard for me to imagine how anyone can find fault with that approach.

Thank you for sharing your concerns.

Hey FlatLander.... You are Looking at a 2D Picture from the Wrong Friggen Angle(Side).... Look at the Same Pictures from the Ass End and You will See a Whole Different Story.... 3D Photography will dispel your False Beliefs.... But You and the Majority of the Golfing Population will never Give up your Sacred Myths... Have a Great Day.....

 

[ClubCaster]

Hey FlatLander.... You are Looking at a 2D Picture from the Wrong Friggen Angle(Side).... Look at the Same Pictures from the Ass End and You will See a Whole Different Story.... 3D Photography will dispel your False Beliefs.... But You and the Majority of the Golfing Population will never Give up your Sacred Myths... Have a Great Day.....

Oh I get it! You're just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. That must be so fun for you. I'll make one last attempt to explain, and then you can have go ahead and have your fun acting like an idiot jerk on your own. From the face-on view, virtually all accomplished players have a 90 degree angle or sharper angle at this point in the downswing. Virtually all poor players have a greater angle. Do the math.

 

[Leek]

Hey FlatLander.... You are Looking at a 2D Picture from the Wrong Friggen Angle(Side).... Look at the Same Pictures from the Ass End and You will See a Whole Different Story.... 3D Photography will dispel your False Beliefs.... But You and the Majority of the Golfing Population will never Give up your Sacred Myths... Have a Great Day.....

Huh??

 

[Bronco Billy]

Oh I get it! You're just being an asshole for the sake of being an asshole. That must be so fun for you. I'll make one last attempt to explain, and then you can have go ahead and have your fun acting like an idiot jerk on your own. From the face-on view, virtually all accomplished players have a 90 degree angle or sharper angle at this point in the downswing. Virtually all poor players have a greater angle. Do the math.

Thanks for Proving My Point!

 

[teeithigh]

clubcaster, i really feel the lag when i drag the grip end before the clubhead moves on the takeaway.. (i forgot the tgm term for this)...with soft hands you can feel your left wrist cupping, shaft leaning back (the opposite of what you want at impact!) so on the downswing transition you naturally reverse these conditions so that your right wrist bends, left wrist flattens, forward leaning shaft, and EUREKA LAG!!!! hope this helps,,,brian has a great u-tube video about this takeaway....

 

[ClubCaster]

clubcaster, i really feel the lag when i drag the grip end before the clubhead moves on the takeaway.. (i forgot the tgm term for this)...with soft hands you can feel your left wrist cupping, shaft leaning back (the opposite of what you want at impact!) so on the downswing transition you naturally reverse these conditions so that your right wrist bends, left wrist flattens, forward leaning shaft, and EUREKA LAG!!!! hope this helps,,,brian has a great u-tube video about this takeaway....

Thank you TeeItHigh. Yeah, Brian taught me to do that in New Orleans too and I could see how it helped on shorter pitch shots, but I was still having trouble with full shots. The advice he just gave earlier in this thread about doing the "hurdle drill" really seems to have helped though. I'd worked on the hurdle drill a lot before getting a lesson from Brian, but now that I'm doing it in conjunction with what he taught me, I think everything is starting to come together. The feeling I have now when swinging the club is like nothing else I've ever experienced before, and I really feel like I'm in control of where the ball goes. I'm super excited about it.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Good luck, Caster ! Just curious, where do you place your "hurdle" for excercises and what is it ?

Cheers

 

[self-mastery]

The feeling I have now when swinging the club is like nothing else I've ever experienced before, and I really feel like I'm in control of where the ball goes. I'm super excited about it.

Ah!!! it is like getting high for the first time

Golfer's high: compression, lag pressure, and a penetrating ball flight.

Good luck.

SM