softconsult
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But this stuff skips generations. I wonder who in your genetic tree had that gift.
What is Golf Talent?
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vjsinger
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Absolutely no one in any generation..seriously no one. Only my sister and myself. I will say as far as athletic "talent", what the original post is about, I don't know, but someone has an arguement for that and I could dig up some examples. I would think scientists would use Tiger as the prime example, because he watched his father hit many balls in their garage when he was a toddler and he worked hard as he got older.
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self-mastery
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Relative pitch is more important than perfect (absolute) pitch. A person might be able to hear a tone and yell out "c#", but that doesn't mean that they have the ability to put notes together and make music. I spent a lot of time listening to intervals to improve my 'ear', but I'll never have it like the naturals... Oh well...
Golf was created by the gods to spite men. I never seen anything that can totally consume lives like golf.
Golf was created by the gods to spite men. I never seen anything that can totally consume lives like golf.
vjsinger
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Being able to play with people, be flexible and play in tune with matching styles with others is the most important thing in music. Yes you are correct in a way, perfect pitch is not a recipe for success in music, but it sure makes transcribing anything easy and I learned that. I wasn't born with it.
aaron_lohan
New
Talent does exist, take Andy Bolton for example, the first time he went into a gym he deadlifted 500lbs, that was over 20 years ago in 2006 he became the first and only person to have ever deadlifted a 1000lbs.
Paul Anderson squatted 350lbs for 10 reps the first time he tried, and went on to reputedly squat 1160lbs.
Paul Anderson squatted 350lbs for 10 reps the first time he tried, and went on to reputedly squat 1160lbs.
It is an interesting debate as to if natural "talent" exists (just being born to something very well) and if it does, how does it occur? It may be genetics and it could also be early exposure to something. It's more likely to be a combination of factors including genetics. We, as well as all living things, have the innate(from DNA) ability to respond, change, adapt to our environment. Humans can and do choose the environment(s) that they want to be around and usually choose the environment(s) that they enjoy being in--golf, music, swimming, sailing, teaching....
That being said, you can definitely see that some people just do some things better and sooner that others. I would suspect that is from genetics and how many neuronal synapses and how much neurotrasmitters their genes code for.
That being said, you can definitely see that some people just do some things better and sooner that others. I would suspect that is from genetics and how many neuronal synapses and how much neurotrasmitters their genes code for.
I don't want this to sound arrogant or like I'm bragging, but both my dad and my grandfather could play golf very well, and I do as well. My grandfather played well into his 60s and 70s, and my dad can still play around a 2 or 3 handicap at age 61.
I started playing golf when I was 17, which is very late compared to most good players, but I took to it pretty quickly. I could break 80 within about 6 or 9 months of playing (it was on kind of an easy course though) and now am trying my hand at playing professionally on mini tours (I'm 26 now).
I'm not sure how "talented" or not I am, but there seems to be a trend of families who have good players producing more good players. Most of the guys I know that can play well have dads that could play well too.
I started playing golf when I was 17, which is very late compared to most good players, but I took to it pretty quickly. I could break 80 within about 6 or 9 months of playing (it was on kind of an easy course though) and now am trying my hand at playing professionally on mini tours (I'm 26 now).
I'm not sure how "talented" or not I am, but there seems to be a trend of families who have good players producing more good players. Most of the guys I know that can play well have dads that could play well too.
Brian Manzella
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More Talent.
Stan Stopa has been a good golfer since I was 3 years old.
If you threw a ball at him from 10-yards, he'd hurt himself.
I maintain that Stan is in that category of "early exposure." His dad played, and he lived very close to the course. Because he wasn't that good in other sports, he played golf all day. Still does.
Early exposure.
I came from a family that did not have one musician, and I was beating on pots and pans at two years old. I VIVIDLY remember pulling out the pots and pans and arranging them. I asked my mom 10 years ago when that was, and she said I was 2. "We bought you a set with paper heads for your third birthday so we could hear the TV." Nobody told me how to play, I wasn't playing to music, and I don't give a rats ass what any expert says, that is an INBORN thing. They put on a record when I got that first set, and I played along. I was on TV playing three years later without anyone telling me a lick about what to play except for one $5 lesson.
Talent.
Golf is a funny sport. All the things that make me a good basketballer, and good football player works against me in golf. Except for touch. Which is mostly negated by my very poor nerves.
Lack of talent.
I've played basketball and tennis against David Toms and we are dead even. I am quite sure I'd go five rounds in the draft before him at Norman playground in football.
On the range I can hit it within 10 yards of him, and hit as many shots as he can, maybe more.
He hits it SOooooooo much purer than me, and straighter than me, and pitches it 1000 times better than me, that it is a joke.
On the putting green, I have beat him as many times as he has beaten me.
He can give me 6 a side.
Talent vs. Lack of Talent.
Next.
Stan Stopa has been a good golfer since I was 3 years old.
If you threw a ball at him from 10-yards, he'd hurt himself.
I maintain that Stan is in that category of "early exposure." His dad played, and he lived very close to the course. Because he wasn't that good in other sports, he played golf all day. Still does.
Early exposure.
I came from a family that did not have one musician, and I was beating on pots and pans at two years old. I VIVIDLY remember pulling out the pots and pans and arranging them. I asked my mom 10 years ago when that was, and she said I was 2. "We bought you a set with paper heads for your third birthday so we could hear the TV." Nobody told me how to play, I wasn't playing to music, and I don't give a rats ass what any expert says, that is an INBORN thing. They put on a record when I got that first set, and I played along. I was on TV playing three years later without anyone telling me a lick about what to play except for one $5 lesson.
Talent.
Golf is a funny sport. All the things that make me a good basketballer, and good football player works against me in golf. Except for touch. Which is mostly negated by my very poor nerves.
Lack of talent.
I've played basketball and tennis against David Toms and we are dead even. I am quite sure I'd go five rounds in the draft before him at Norman playground in football.
On the range I can hit it within 10 yards of him, and hit as many shots as he can, maybe more.
He hits it SOooooooo much purer than me, and straighter than me, and pitches it 1000 times better than me, that it is a joke.
On the putting green, I have beat him as many times as he has beaten me.
He can give me 6 a side.
Talent vs. Lack of Talent.
Next.
Not lack of talent, just less talented at certain things, and maybe suck at others like a lot of us. Your not a total spazz, right?
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
Geez VJ,
It's just a debate.
I just disagree with the experts.
You OBVIOUSLY have Golf Talent. I'd love to take all the credit for your Professional Quality shots when you have been playing less than a year.
But I can't.
And I won't.
Cuz, you have talent.
vjsinger
New
I get carried away with debating and then I worry that I offend my friend during the debate. You should take ALOT of the credit for my development though Brian, without you I'd probably be reading Golf Digest and "learning" from good ol' Pete on CBS, hacking away for many years. I don't have to do that because of you
Anyone who doubts the existence of talent should watch Usain Bolt run. He is, hands down, the most gifted athlete of the 21st century. Michael Phelps is a close second.
I've always looked at talent as the ability to do things other people can't learn to do: sub-4.5 40's, free-throw line dunks, solid contact on a moving 94-mph fastball, etc. What's the golfing equivalent of these talent benchmarks?
It's a little harder to say, I think. Distance stands out as one example of golfing talent. Some guys just hit the ball really hard. You can hear it, the sound of a ball being flattened on the clubface. The way some of the pros hit their long irons scares me.
Touch is a golfing talent that is a little harder to put your finger on, but it's real. Especially if you can maintain that touch under pressure. The pros obviously handle that pressure pretty well, but what about the rest of us? You can pepper the 150 flag all day on the range, but can you get it up and down from a tight lie, short-sided, when you're pressed, rolled, and re-rolled for more money than you can add up without a calculator?
Brian probably made my point for me in one of his posts. I think golfing talent has less to do with what shots you can hit and more to do with when you can hit them.
I've always looked at talent as the ability to do things other people can't learn to do: sub-4.5 40's, free-throw line dunks, solid contact on a moving 94-mph fastball, etc. What's the golfing equivalent of these talent benchmarks?
It's a little harder to say, I think. Distance stands out as one example of golfing talent. Some guys just hit the ball really hard. You can hear it, the sound of a ball being flattened on the clubface. The way some of the pros hit their long irons scares me.
Touch is a golfing talent that is a little harder to put your finger on, but it's real. Especially if you can maintain that touch under pressure. The pros obviously handle that pressure pretty well, but what about the rest of us? You can pepper the 150 flag all day on the range, but can you get it up and down from a tight lie, short-sided, when you're pressed, rolled, and re-rolled for more money than you can add up without a calculator?
Brian probably made my point for me in one of his posts. I think golfing talent has less to do with what shots you can hit and more to do with when you can hit them.
vjsinger
New
Another part to think on when it comes to talent. Is it possible for someone to be born with the ability to perform under heavy pressure and not get nervous? I've done it in stretches, but it depends on how prepared I feel BEFORE the event. If I've put my time in and practiced alot before a recital I MAY or may not have some nerves, but it doesn't bother me much. If for some reason I don't put in the right amount of preparation I definetly feel the jitters and it effects me much more and my performance, from MY perspective, suffers. I, like Brian, have performed for large audiences since I was a little kid and still do today, whether it be on TV and millions see it or at a park and only hundreds are there. I can remember when I was little and feeling EXACTLY the same. For me, it really depended on the time and my preparation.
Steve Greffen
New
I get carried away with debating and then I worry that I offend my friend during the debate. You should take ALOT of the credit for my development though Brian, without you I'd probably be reading Golf Digest and "learning" from good ol' Pete on CBS, hacking away for many years. I don't have to do that because of you
And what is Brian developing veej? He is developing your particular talent in regards to golf. And He is as all great coaches able to spot the particular talents of a player and make them better. Again talent in my mind is being able to do something well with better than average success. There is not a definition of either talent or no talent, rather grades of talent in many many facets that make up the game. Perhaps you have a high talent level for following direction and that helps you with Brians instruction get better faster even if your talent for swinging a club on plane or in balance is not one of your better talents.
Golf talent is made up of many many different talents both physical and mental and there are people that have higher levels of the talent that best help their golf game. There is no description of the makeup of these talents that I know of or grading system that would help one learn what to work on, but I'm sure that top instructors have some way of evaluating the talents of their students.
I had always thought talent was a combination of genetics,exposure at an early age,desire and correct develepment.
Then theres Greg Norman who first picked up a golf stick at 16 and played off scratch within a year.Now that is golf talent.I cannot imagine how good he would have been had he started the same age as Tiger and had a military father who disciplined his mind from such an early age.
Then theres Greg Norman who first picked up a golf stick at 16 and played off scratch within a year.Now that is golf talent.I cannot imagine how good he would have been had he started the same age as Tiger and had a military father who disciplined his mind from such an early age.
I believe the ability to perform under pressure is a learned behavior. It has a lot to do with previous experiences and as ej20 says, how a person is raised. An athlete can even learn to control his/her emotions through sports psychology techniques. Research has shown that the human brain cannot tell the difference between an imagined situation and a real situation. So, if you can practice and feel the same type pressure you will be under, then when the competition time comes you've already performed at that level and have the confidence that you will again. The hard part is to forget the "bad" experiences.
There's that story of the POW who would work on his golf swing and play golf in his head to keep his mind off the torture of being a prisoner of war. When he was finally back home, he was now a scratch golfer. Don't know if it is really true or not, but it sure makes for a good story.
There's that story of the POW who would work on his golf swing and play golf in his head to keep his mind off the torture of being a prisoner of war. When he was finally back home, he was now a scratch golfer. Don't know if it is really true or not, but it sure makes for a good story.
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The unconscious part of the brain can't tell the difference between real or imagined. The conscious part can tell the difference. The story of the Pow could be true if he had the right pictures.
I know someone who wasn't a very good skater, started late like 14yrs. old, thus was not good at hockey because of this. He picked the best player, which at the time was Bobby Orr, to watch. He closely watched him for a full season and pictured himself as Bobby Orr making all those great moves and skating like him.
The next winter the guy was on the rink skating and stick handling like he had taken friggin power skating lessons and went to hockey school. I know for a fact he did not. One of the most amazing things i have witnessed. If i hadn't seen it i wouldn't have believed it.
The power of the mind is truly amazing and if you can get it in harmony with the body, bingo! Not that easy though.
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trickyric67
New
I think it's remarkably funny, I have had this conversation with some of my close friend who are golf proffesionals many times. I have always said that the differance between good club players and pro's is that a pro just puts club to ball solidly almost all the time. I have asked them if they had every been through a period where they lost solid contact for an extended period and the answer is always "NO". Pro's work on direction, distance and trajectory while club players are trying to catch the majic of consistancy. I have seen many players who just roll out and stripe it, but many more who have to work thier butts off to get maybe 70% of thier shots to be solid.
Talent
It's silly to deny that we all have different talents.
Golfing talent...the ability to see the shot, feel the shot, then execute the shot in most any situation. I say most any situation because none of us is immune of situational influence. It's equally silly to deny situational influence. When you mix situational pressure, talent and focus some interesting things result.
It's silly to deny that we all have different talents.
Golfing talent...the ability to see the shot, feel the shot, then execute the shot in most any situation. I say most any situation because none of us is immune of situational influence. It's equally silly to deny situational influence. When you mix situational pressure, talent and focus some interesting things result.
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