What is Optimal?

[ggsjpc]

I know there has been some wonderful research done by the camp here and I keep seeing reference to the word optimal.

I've seen some definitions of optimal but I'm not sure of its meaning as it refers to the golf swing.

Does optimal depend on the reference? Optimal for speed or optimal for full swing accuracy (if there is such a thing)?

Does the science lean toward the possibility that there is an optimal swing? Optimal for what? Just curious.

 

[Dariusz J.]

I know there has been some wonderful research done by the camp here and I keep seeing reference to the word optimal.

I've seen some definitions of optimal but I'm not sure of its meaning as it refers to the golf swing.

Does optimal depend on the reference? Optimal for speed or optimal for full swing accuracy (if there is such a thing)?

Does the science lean toward the possibility that there is an optimal swing? Optimal for what? Just curious.

There always was, is and will be an optimum depending on a specific goal in our 4-D reality. I not only believe but my researches made me quite sure that e.g. optimal swing motion for accuracy is quite different from optimal swing motion for distance - using your example. Same for every other human activity. There may be million ways to accomplish a goal but only one is truly optimal even if some others are close to optimal. Of course, the more complicated the subject is (vide: golf swing motion) the tougher is to define optima even if it is very easy to define the very goals.

Cheers

 

[natep]

I think optimal would have to be relative regarding the golf swing.

But generally I suppose a golf swing providing the best statistical combination of power accuracy and consistency for a particular individual could be considered optimal.

 

[birly-shirly]

Good question. I got the impression from discussions before and after the Anti-Summit (but without, I have to stress, actually watching the video) that "optimal" was being used in the sense of the efficient generation of clubhead speed at impact.

I also got the impression that "optimal" in the multiple senses of mechanically or physically repeatable, or intuitive, or manipulable, was being deferred somewhat as an issue, perhaps on the grounds that these qualities are harder to pin down or define.

I'd be happy to be contradicted on this - not least because I think the latter issues are more interesting.

 

[Michael Finney]

Almost every paper published on the golf swing is either optimizing club head speed or is explaining what the player or the club is doing with no comment on "optimal"....

The study of "plane" and "closure rates" are in their infancy because very few researchers have had the guts to try a 3D model....we're pushing forward

 

[Michael Finney]

John, we're not doing the research, we're reading the research.......big difference

End of February, we're doing some research

 

[Brian Manzella]

Project 1.68 & Optimal

What I am finding in my research....I am doing research is this:

There seems to be two kinds of golf swings.

Without giving it all away, the Nicklaus-Calcaveccia-Watson-Toms model, and the Sergio-Hogan-McIllroy-Fowler model.

There is "optimum" way to do those two types of swings. And....there is "sub-optimum."

You can make either work, of course, because the ball only knows what the club is doing.

But the body is a HUGE influence.

 

[Kevin Shields]

What I am finding in my research....I am doing research is this:

There seems to be two kinds of golf swings.

Without giving it all away, the Nicklaus-Calcaveccia-Watson-Toms model, and the Sergio-Hogan-McIllroy-Fowler model.

There is "optimum" way to do those two types of swings. And....there is "sub-optimum."

You can make either work, of course, because the ball only knows what the club is doing.

But the body is a HUGE influence.

Agreed

 

[birdie_man]

Whatever works best for a player in accomplishing the results they want..

Or what Nate said.

Seems simple enough to me, as far as I understand all this.

 

[birdie_man]

Very interesting Brian..

 

[siksta]

Without giving it all away, the Nicklaus-Calcaveccia-Watson-Toms model, and the Sergio-Hogan-McIllroy-Fowler model.

There is "optimum" way to do those two types of swings. And....there is "sub-optimum."

You can make either work, of course, because the ball only knows what the club is doing.

But the body is a HUGE influence.


Yes agreed studying those models one must look at the body there are big differences and one place you can look is post impact! Obviously there's more!

 

[dbl]

Really? Would those two Types include freaks like SadlowskI or Zuback? And mike austin and happy gilmore?

Will wait and see.

 

[birdie_man]

I have to try to figure this out now.

I can spot some general samenesses but not exactly sure how you are classifying..

 

[mjstrong]

I'll start:
Group 1 - More upright-looking swings, pretty full hand releases
Group 2 - Flatter?, more of a shoulder-release (shoulder tumble?)

Now, somebody else.

 

[birdie_man]

Group 1: They all TSPers? (more upright ds) More of em anyway. Yes- earlier releases. Less "stay down"/more "stand up" in ds? Swing arc more around the shoulders, upper spine? More/earlier shoulder thrust in ds? Not super familiar w Calc..flat left wrist? Top of swing r elbow position? Less targetward shift in ds?

Group 2: More Elbow Planers? Later release. Less stand up in ds, more open? Swing arc more around hips, lower spine? More laid off/tucked r elbow at top. More bent left wrists before impact? More targetward shift in ds..

Etc.....?

 

[DCgolf]

"The purpose of the golf swing is to create solid impact and hit good golf shots. THE METHOD EMPLOYED IS OF NO COSEQUENCE AS LONG AS IT CAN BE REPEATED". John Jacobs

 

[mjstrong]

DC,

It sounds like Mr. Jacobs meant, "use whatever works." We're trying to figure out what works best.

If you aren't all that interesting in discovering/debating golf swing, might I recommend a non-golf-instructional forum?

 

[birdie_man]

I wonder if he just saw the thread title, "What is optimal?", and jumped on in?

I do not entirely know myself mj, but ya the general theme in this thread was "Do whatever works."

...

Town Cryer, with bell and horn: "(Here ye here ye.) Do, ye, as whatever doth guideth thine dimpled projectile sphere best, and ye will reap a glorious harvest in the Kingdom Of Golfdom."

Wise Golfdom Sage: "Aye, obviously. And may thine wife be fertile. Now go fourth!, conquer, and fertilise!!"

Ye Blacksmith: "Tis a fine cryer bell, which I made."

...

 

[birdie_man]

Ahahahahaha.

Sorry for excess post.

To add content:

"Ye must master the d-plane to guide thine ball valiantly. And ye pivot in an athletic fashion, to harness great might! Reject tripod swine!!"

 

[DCgolf]

DC,

It sounds like Mr. Jacobs meant, "use whatever works." We're trying to figure out what works best.

If you aren't all that interesting in discovering/debating golf swing, might I recommend a non-golf-instructional forum?

If I wasn't "all that interested" in the topics discussed in this forum, I would not have have dedicated the last 30 years of my life to teaching and studying the game of golf and the teaching of it to over 35,000 students. Nor would I be recognized as a PGA Master professional and a 3-time teacher of the year by the PGA of America. Before you insult someones passion and dedication, perhaps you should consider the source of the comment. DC