What is your putting average?

[Jim Kobylinski]

How firm? How much break?
How many athletic pursuits(throwing a ball/tennis shots/a quarterback throwing a pass) do you know involve the suggestion that you go a little past the target?

My suggestion is to find the tempo that YOU feel most comfortable with and then TRY to putt balls such that there is a certain 'delivery' speed AT the hole. That is you want a delivery speed that maximises your chances of making the putt IF it hits ANY part of the hole AND doesn't go too far past such that your comebackers are too testy for you!

Trust your instincts guys! How many times have you reached for a doorknob and missed short?

That's for the golfer to decide, the main thing i see in bad putters is they don't hit the ball nearly fast enough and they usually over estimate the break. This comes from both students and just playing golf.

They seem to be so worried about making it they don't hit it hard enough to even give it a chance. Even happens on the tour sometimes and better players as well, none of us are immune to it.

 

[puttmad]

I completely agree that weight is first as it determines the line, but can there ever be a standard?

dmac00

There has to be a (personal) distance standard, otherwise you will never crack putting consistently to the best of your ability..
That's the whole point (no pun intended..)

 

[puttmad]

For most amateurs it would be better (for a while) not to worry about being 3 ft past the hole...


A bit like most players underestimating iron distance into the greens....nearly all the trouble/hazzard is at the front of the green..

 

[Damon Lucas]

Not quite a good example damon.
When the player you are throwing to catches it, the ball is traveling PAST them. They simply interrupt its flight... Tennis is different, you are not intending your partner to catch the thing!...
And you always throw (instinctively) slightly farther than the ball needs to travel, to allow the catcher to catch it before it drops severely due to gravity...

If you train yourself to putt balls the correct distance (best is 15-17 inches past the hole)...and can perform this consistently, the reading breaks becomes a matter of "watch and adjust" over a shrt period of time...
As long as your weight is correct and constant, the break reading develops correctly from that...

Weight first.
Using correct weight, learn the allowances...

Actually Puttmad, it IS a perfect example!
When you throw a ball towards someone, unless you are trying to pelt them, it will land softly in their hands.
As with putting to a target, when you instinctively putt towards a target, it will get there, or go a little past. Such that you have an optimum 'holing' speed!!

Guys, 17 inches or 15 inches are ill thought numbers. Pelz's actual research concluded that there were different distances for different green types and then a magazine editor conveniently averaged his data to create an easy sell to appeal to the masses!!!!

Instead I am suggesting that you look for a holing speed or delivery speed that

1. Allows you to maximise your chances of making the putt IF the ball hits part of the hole;
2. Minimises the length of the comeback putt since for MOST people 3 putting less has a higher priority than 1 putting more!!
3. Is NOT completely a die at the hole speed, which provides zero makes if you get it wrong on the short side AND counters somewhat green irregularities;

This concept ties in very neatly with treating yourself as an instinctive human athlete rather than a mathematical robot.15 or 17 inches????? I suppose you take the putter back 3 inches to 'make' the ball go 12.3456 feet too????

 

[puttmad]

As with putting to a target, when you instinctively putt towards a target, it will get there, or go a little past. Such that you have an optimum 'holing' speed!!

Sorry Damon,
That doesn't quite gel with actual results, which indicate that one of the biggest flaws all handicaps is coming up short...(ref puttingzone,,but you'll have to find it yourself..)
If instinct worked as pefectly as you say, this wouldn't be the case...

 

[VTPlayer004]

That's for the golfer to decide, the main thing i see in bad putters is they don't hit the ball nearly fast enough and they usually over estimate the break. This comes from both students and just playing golf.

They seem to be so worried about making it they don't hit it hard enough to even give it a chance. Even happens on the tour sometimes and better players as well, none of us are immune to it.

Wow...most people I would consider 'bad' putters rarely play enough break. In fact, I believe Pelz says most golfers should double the amount of break they play on putts. Most of the mid to high handicaps I play with (even some low ones) could afford to read a little more break into their putts.

 

[Damon Lucas]

Sorry Damon,
That doesn't quite gel with actual results, which indicate that one of the biggest flaws all handicaps is coming up short...(ref puttingzone,,but you'll have to find it yourself..)
If instinct worked as pefectly as you say, this wouldn't be the case...

How many people trust their instincts?
How many people would know where to start to integrate instinct into their putting mechanics?
How many pros would know where to start to teach instinct?

What is your approach? Hit it 18 inches past....then what? And WHY 18 inches?

P.S. I did Pelz...I gave his ideas about 8 years because he was the only one saying anything about putting in my world. I became much worse!

 

[otto6457]

J remembers the greens!

I know why Otto leaves those putts short.

If he doesn't, he may have 10 feet coming back.

Life is good here Otto, game is not improving but I am going to see the man in a few weeks.

Hey!!

You're right about the 10 footers coming back. LOL!!!! The greens were at 11 for the Club Championship. Remember #3. The pin was in the very front. I hit a shot that looked good in the air, but went long up on the top. I nudged the putt so softly it hardly made a sound off the putter and I watched the word "Titleist" roll by so slowly it looked like it might stop 20 feet short. The ball rolled off of the green and wound up in the bottom of the gully. I had a 30 yd pitch back to the green. LOL!!!

I'm glad Oklahoma is agreeing with you. I just got back from seeing the MAN last week. I am willing to bet that the game is fixin' to get a lot better.

take care.

 

[birdie_man]

Now that I'm fairly happy with my mechanics- for execution, once I setup/aim correctly, I just try to make a motion. (i.e. HK: "The motion makes the shot.") If you think about it, it truly is all YOU can DO.

I use a Clear Key too to occupy my mind. Speed seems to take care of itself.

Don't know my putting avg. but I would say I'm a good putter.

Most of the mid to high handicaps I play with (even some low ones) could afford to read a little more break into their putts.

I can see that. Esp. for the real slippery ones.

 

[birdie_man]

As for speed, I have read that you do not want to be a situational putter (i.e. switch back and forth from hitting putts firm to dying them in the hole) and that you should stick to your given style. I tend to try and die the ball into the hole most of the time, and I struggle when I try to hit putts different ways (i.e. become a firm putter).

I dunno man......you don't think situational "things" call for you to use both styles?

i.e. straight uphill vs. super slick downhill left to right.

I know which one I'm hitting firm.

Not to mention if you add tournament pressure AND tournament position with relation to the field to those examples.

 

[Chris Sturgess]

Wow...most people I would consider 'bad' putters rarely play enough break. In fact, I believe Pelz says most golfers should double the amount of break they play on putts. Most of the mid to high handicaps I play with (even some low ones) could afford to read a little more break into their putts.

That is true for sure that bad putters don't play enough break. It's like they don't even see the break at all half the time. Especially on left to right putts. People who can't putt always miss those badly to the right, breaking away early and never coming close. Not only do they not respect or see break enough, but they don't notice or respect how much uphill or downhill it is. It's amazing sometimes to see somebody leave an uphill 40 footer 15 feet short or bomb a 20 foot downhiller 15 feet by.

 

[puttmad]

What is your approach? Hit it 18 inches past....then what? And WHY 18 inches?

You have my approach Damon...

!8" is an approximation anyway, but to me has good logic behind it...watch any breaking putt (and I know you do) where does the most break usually occur....yes, in the final 12-18 feet of travel...
So why mess about with trying to read the "difficult break" section at the end of you putts, when you can eliminate it by hitting the ball harder?..

I have a simplistic viewpoint...if it doesn't get to the hole, it can't go in...simple as that...I just make sure that most of the time it gets to (and past) the hole..
OK there are a few situations where I may want to vary that thinking, but overall, I don't care if I am two, or even three feet past the hole, as long as the damn thing had a chance in the first place..

 

[Damon Lucas]

So when you visualise the ball breaking into the hole as part of the initial read, do you visualise the ball continuing it's travel 18 inches past the hole?

18 inches past what?? The high side? From a straight line between you and the hole? At the entry point?

I know that you are a very good putter. Great!! But from a simplistic viewpoint, most golfers are better served rolling the ball at a slowish speed, occasionally leaving it short, and taking their two putts instead of three, to reduce their overall putting stats. They might miss one or two putts by leaving it short, they will probably make one or two more putts by having an effectively larger hole with a better holing speed, and they will three putt less often.

Then when they acquire decent putting skills, then talk about speeds whether they be your vague, sounds good but why 18 inches, or they be an approach based on hole capture physics, instinct, personal tempo, comfortable return putt distance, and a few other reasons.

My guess is that they will choose the better holing speed.

 

[holeout]

My guess is that they will choose the better holing speed.

I believe this is the reason for the Pelz-recommended 18 inches past speed. It is because the ball, at this speed, holds its line better while maximizing the chances of going in should it catch the hole.

Anything slower and it won't hold its line as well (greens ain't perfect), counter-acting the greater chance of going in should it hit the hole.

Any faster, the less likely it is to go in should it hit the hole, despite the fact that it will hold its line better.

His 18 inch rule is just an average as well. He himself said it could vary should the greens be faster/slower or in better/worse shape. On very fast, slick greens he said the ideal speed could be as low as 4 or 5 inches past. On shaggy greens, as high as 25-35 inches.

I personally still don't see why 18 inches is such a big deal. Measure out 18 inches on a green sometime. It's much shorter than you'd think.

 

[puttmad]

..

So when you visualise the ball breaking into the hole as part of the initial read, do you visualise the ball continuing it's travel 18 inches past the hole?

I pace the putt out, allowing 2ft per pace...I add an extra pace (or more if steep uphill). Downhill less allowance, but depends on the green....
Then read the break and don't visualise the final 18", simply the ball maintaining its line into the hole....
Using the read, I "straighten" all putts out and effectively hit a straight putt at my defined pace distance....

 

[puttmad]

I know that you are a very good putter. Great!! But from a simplistic viewpoint, most golfers are better served rolling the ball at a slowish speed, occasionally leaving it short, and taking their two putts instead of three, to reduce their overall putting stats. They might miss one or two putts by leaving it short, they will probably make one or two more putts by having an effectively larger hole with a better holing speed, and they will three putt less often.

Damon,
Just as an exercise, get one of your students to deliberately hit all their putts long for a couple of days....
I think once they revert back to normal, you will find they will have a better grasp of getting it to the hole, without overdoing it....
Just a thought..

 

[Mr. Greenie]

nm