Longer hosels back in the day.
What the Golfer CAN and CAN'T do during Impact
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
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Longer hosels back in the day.
gmbtempe
New
It must be that 2012 end of the world thing but I am agreeing with Darius a lot more then ever lately.
Intentional heel strike to help generate a cut?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yes.
That's where the "no-twist" spot was.
Yes.
You have clubhead and shaft there too.
Much.
Snead was toe-side if he was anywhere near the middle.
So you don't think you can:
1. Open the face after closing it right before impact?
2. Cause the face to open through impact WITHOUT hitting it toe-side?
Hell no.
I would seriously doubt that! Just such a precise striker he probably figured out where the hit would keep club from opening or closing. his fade was a deliberate open face strike.
Can you clarify these answers a little?
1. If I am reading this correctly, you are saying that a particular swing style could result in the club head to stop closing and begin to open microseconds before impact?
2. How much do you think the collision with the ball influences club head motion during impact and microseconds after, compared to the golfer's influence? A percentage.
I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand your viewpoint.
Dariusz J.
New member
Why the end of the world ? I have been VERY CONSTANT in my theories since more than three years already. It means you must have changed yours recently then if you were disagreeing with mine in the past
Cheers
Brian Manzella
Administrator
1. The golfer can not influence impact at or during impact. The golfer can not add mass, make the face open on a CG centered strike, close it extra, resist deceleration, etc.
EXHIBIT A — From Anti-Summit I, the first 10 minutes of the symposium on this very subject (free of charge):
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/42476533" width="500" height="283" frameborder="0" webkitallowfullscreen="" mozallowfullscreen="" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>
EXHIBIT B — Modern Driver
A represents the visual center of the face, at least the one the company graphically marked.
B represents the direction the Center of Gravity of the club will move from the often used placement by manufactures toward the heel of the club.
C represents the possible further direction movement of the CoG that matters at impact due to the last 5-6 inches of the shaft being included at impact to the over all mass of the club.
2. This is why a strike can occur in what you might think the "sweetspot" is, but it is actually not hit on the ideal place on the club from that particular swing, and with that particular club.
3. The 3D path of the ACTUAL at impact "last 5 -6 inches of the shaft and the clubhead CoG" has to pass DIRECTLY thorough the center line of the ball to get a "no-twist: impact. If that CoG passes to the heel side of the centerline of the ball, you get a toe side hit, with an opening face and tilted to the left spin (draw) axis pickup. If that CoG passes to the toe side of the centerline of the ball, you get a heel side hit, with an closing face and tilted to the right (fade) spin axis pickup.
EXHIBIT C: If the CoG were the green dot, this would happen:
Also, two more things to consider in this photo....1. The light grey arrow points to a rubber tee that may have somewhat contributed to the action by the head....2. The balls was also contacted high on the club causing positive vertical gear effect (adding loft).
No.
I'm not saying anything like that.
It's somebody else's hypotesis. It is not possible.
The golfer can't do anything during impact. ZERO.
So it that regard, the collision is 100%
Now the golfer can deliver a clubface that will close somewhere between 0.3° from impact to max compression, to 0.7° from mpact to max compression—at the super extremes. Half of that is probably the normal range. Either way, you can even dream up that number on Casio.
You can't do ANYTHING.
There many not be any hope for you Greg.
Do you understand that Paul Wood gave us the answer.....you are listening to....who?
gmbtempe
New
Why the end of the world ? I have been VERY CONSTANT in my theories since more than three years already. It means you must have changed yours recently then if you were disagreeing with mine in the past
Cheers
Probably a bit of both, that's why I never claim to have THE answer, that way as I research if my opinion changes I don't look so foolish.
Sorry for not being more clear. I was asking gmbtempe to answer those questions. But, thanks for your answers.
gmbtempe
New
1. Open right before, no..............close LESS, yes. and I am not talking about the moment of impact, but several frames before and during the impact interval. So I dont think you can have a face closing, make a determination with your brain to open the face .000001 before impact, its not possible.
2. I cant answer that, I dont know
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Greg....the video is an illusion.
The toe is always going much faster than the heel.
The toe is always going much faster than the heel.
gmbtempe
New
thats why I said close less, this is my opinion.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
This one might be the end as we know it.
Irrefutable evidence.
No effect.
Irrefutable evidence.
No effect.
gmbtempe
New
so your saying that the club face does not close before, and through impact, at different rates for different swings?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
The face is closing the whole downswing.
The range of closing—measured on ENSO-pro—for all players is from about 1500-4000° per sec. Alex Dee of Fujikura says that PGA Tour players are in the 2400-3000° range.
NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE THIS NUMBER ZERO OR NEGATIVE.
Paul Wood told us that a perfectly centered impact will slow the closing temporarily, and then it will resume.
Any other WILD opening or WILD closing is due to the CG path through the ball's centerline, and nothing to do with the golfer's RELEASE TYPE!!!!
Tell me you get it now???
The range of closing—measured on ENSO-pro—for all players is from about 1500-4000° per sec. Alex Dee of Fujikura says that PGA Tour players are in the 2400-3000° range.
NOT HUMANLY POSSIBLE TO MAKE THIS NUMBER ZERO OR NEGATIVE.
Paul Wood told us that a perfectly centered impact will slow the closing temporarily, and then it will resume.
Any other WILD opening or WILD closing is due to the CG path through the ball's centerline, and nothing to do with the golfer's RELEASE TYPE!!!!
Tell me you get it now???
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Paul Wood: "We see more of a delay in the closing (on a centered impact) rather than a big opening. On high speed video footage you can actually see in the pictures that the head seems to almost stop closing just for a split second, and then carry on closing. In reality I think we’re confident it’s more of a slight slowing of the closing rather than a stop. For a big heel shot you can see a big acceleration in the closing and for a big toe shot you see the head actually start opening quite a bit, but a center hit looks as I described first."
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