What tilts the spin axis?

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cwdlaw223

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I understand that the face/path dispersion influences the tilt of the spin axis. What else influences the tilt of the spin axis and how? If spin loft influences the tilt of the spin axis, how? I don't understand how spin loft (dynamic loft - attack angle) would alter the spin axis itself.
 
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cwdlaw223

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I don't get how spin loft (dynamic loft - attack angle) tilts the D plane. Is it a small portion of the overall tilt?
 
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Brian Manzella

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The TOP OF THE D-PLANE is THE NORMAL-to-the-CLUBFACE "point." (displayed as DYNAMIC LOFT + CLUBFACE)

The BOTTOM OF THE D-PLANE is the RESULTANT PATH "point" (displayed as SWING DIRECTION [plane or base line] + ANGLE of ATTACK)

:)

Trackman SPIN LOFT is the difference between the DYNAMIC LOFT and ANGLE of ATTACK. Real Spin Loft is the difference between the top and the bottom of the D-Plane.
 
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cwdlaw223

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The "real" spin loft is what was confusing me in this article being described as the D plane itself: http://www.trackman.dk/download/newsletter/newsletter5.pdf

I wasn't aware there were two definitions of spin loft (or maybe I'm still wrong about that). I get how the face/loft and path/AoA interact to form the top and bottom of the D plane. I don't get how spin loft per se helps create the top or bottom.
 
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cwdlaw223

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Thanks.

Brian -

Could you shed some light why thin shots go straight? I presume the spin axis doesn't tilt that much, but I don't know why it doesn't tilt as much even if such shots have more spin than normal due to vertical gear effect.
 
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birly-shirly

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cwdlaw223 - I think many people think of spin loft as a quantity, it's like the loft of a clubface, but larger....

But it's really the angle formed between 2 vectors which have both magnitude and direction, and which are located in space. So if you were to measure the spinloft on an actual shot, you would have both the size of the angle, but also, for anything other than a perfectly straight shot, you'd be measuring that angle in a tilted plane. Tilted plane = tilted spin axis.
 
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cwdlaw223

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Brian Manzella said:
Spin Loft is the D-Plane.

Get it?
Click to expand...

No. Spin loft is defined as dynamic loft - attack angle and yet the top of the D plane is (clubface + dynamic loft) and the bottom is (swing direction + attack angle). I don't see how one can claim the D plane is anything other than the D plane. Spin loft by definition doesn't have all of the elements that make up the wedge from the two (3d) planes. I'm stuck on the definition of spin loft and can't see how it represents the wedge.
 
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Brian Manzella

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Geez....

Spin Loft is the D-Plane.

TrackMan was trying to simplify it. They need to UN-simplifiy it, because every time you try to simplify something....
 
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cwdlaw223

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Ok. I would rather just call the D plane the D plane. That seems simpler than adding another synonym to define the D plane.
 
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cwdlaw223

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If spin loft = dynamic loft - attack angle, and spin loft = the D plane, then wouldn't the D plane = dynamic loft - attack angle?

I know the D plane is the wedge between the top vector (face angle and dynamic loft) and bottom vector (swing direction and attack angle) what I don't get is why Trackman is calling spin loft the D plane when the D plane is more than dynamic loft - attack angle and/or compression. I want to be precise and my logic is telling me that the definition of spin loft (dynamic loft - attack angle = 2D) is not the same as the D plane which is 3D.
 
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cwdlaw223

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birly-shirly said:
cwdlaw223 - I think many people think of spin loft as a quantity, it's like the loft of a clubface, but larger....

But it's really the angle formed between 2 vectors which have both magnitude and direction, and which are located in space. So if you were to measure the spinloft on an actual shot, you would have both the size of the angle, but also, for anything other than a perfectly straight shot, you'd be measuring that angle in a tilted plane. Tilted plane = tilted spin axis.
Click to expand...

birly -

This helps (and thanks Frans for pointing this out). Maybe spin loft is more than just dynamic loft - attack angle????? I now think of spin loft as 3D, I didn't with just a definition of dynamic loft - attack angle.
 
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Brian Manzella

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Frans@France said:
Did you ask Tuxen about this because I was not aware of this, :confused:
Click to expand...

Yup.

cwdlaw223 said:
If spin loft = dynamic loft - attack angle, and spin loft = the D plane, then wouldn't the D plane = dynamic loft - attack angle?

I know the D plane is the wedge between the top vector (face angle and dynamic loft) and bottom vector (swing direction and attack angle) what I don't get is why Trackman is calling spin loft the D plane when the D plane is more than dynamic loft - attack angle and/or compression. I want to be precise and my logic is telling me that the definition of spin loft (dynamic loft - attack angle = 2D) is not the same as the D plane which is 3D.
Click to expand...

ONLY BECAUSE THEY ARE TRYING TO SIMPLIFY IT!!!!!

Effectively (that means in the real world), a ball struck with a identical CoGs lineups, would have LESS SPIN and therefore MORE COMPRESSION if the Path was 0° and the Face was 0° and the Angle of Attack was 0° and the Dynamic Loft was 10° then as shot struck with the Path was 2° and the Face was 1° and the Angle of Attack was 0° and the Dynamic Loft was 10°

...and thus EFFECTIVELY


LESS SPIN LOFT!!!!


Really


But not the way it is currently shown.
 
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