When you don't pop out... wonderful things happen

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kc8kir

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Well, my irons have been hitting really great. Except for my swing being a bit long, I feel like the swing itself is really really coming along nicely. Evidence in play has been there as well, as I'm striking the ball SOLID (not always on line, but SOLID nonetheless).

My driver and 3 wood have given me endless troubles however. They just never feel the same as my irons (even long irons). The problem? Pop out.

Despite my best attempts (and success with the irons) I still had not conquered the popout disconnection problem with long clubs. As a result, long clubs were a mishit and block-slice festival of epic proportions.

Once I realized this problem with pop-out on the long clubs, I spent an entire session at the range working on my non-pop-out takeaway with the driver. The results were... AMAZING. Not only did my clubhead speed jump, but the driver felt like an entirely new club. No more loosey-goosey pivot with the driver. This was stronger, better, faster. Sometimes a little too big of a draw, but that can be worked out.

For the first time in a very long time, I didn't want to stop hitting the driver. It was FUN with all capital letters.

Now, I'm still working on the 3 wood. I'm all over the map with it at the moment (not quite sure the shaft weight, flex, and length is right for me, as the club just feels funny in the swing). But man, it feels good to blast a long draw with the driver out to the end of the range. I didn't have to exert any EXTRA effort to square the clubface either. It wants to return to square with this takeaway. Very natural feeling.

So THANK YOU Brian, for the insight on not popping out. It sure is a better way to take it away. Snead, Hogan, Nicklaus, Nelson, Jones... they were right again!

I put together a swing sequence from some video a week back (6 iron fades). As soon as I figure out where to post the image, I'll get it up here for comments.
 
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kc8kir

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I'll do my best on this one...

The staff can correct me if I am not totally clear.

Pop out is a change in the distance of the hands from the body during the takeaway. Basically, a lot of modern teaching says to have the club in a toe up position way out from you. The result is a disconnected takeaway, a lot of early hand manipulation, over-rotation of the left arm, and frequently a laid off backswing.

This takeaway is incorrect when you look at the best players and ball-strikers (see my list above). The hands should stay close to the body during the takeaway. The toe up position is achieved much more naturally, and the hands past the right thigh. Note, this is not an "early wrist set".

Taking the club away without "popping out" leads to a more dynamic pivot and better ballstriking for many people. Just ask Brian.

I practiced by doing the non-popout takeaway over and over and over again with the driver (I had gotten it with irons, but I still wanted to manipulate the driver with my hands and pop out). The feel is one of tug of war on the takeaway, but with the hands close to the body. It's very simple once you get the hang of it, and you practically have no extra hand manipulation in the backswing to get the toe up position.

Brian covers "not popping out" extensively on his DVDs.

Staff, go ahead and correct the above if I missed something.
 
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pecky987

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brian says how "popping out" is caused by trying to trace a plane angle line on TV screen, but in my experience, tryin to achieve the classic parallel to ground, parallel to target line, toe up, directly above to line position causes pop-out more. IMO
 
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kc8kir

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I completely understand the idea of "pop-out" resulting from trying to trace a plane line on a screen. Additionally, trying to put the club in the toe up position with the hands seems to encourage pop out (for me at least, and sounds like you as well).

My takeaway position, not popping out, still momentarily puts the club parallel to the target line, in a toe up position, but it is MUCH closer to the body. The pivot is moving the club, not a bunch of hand manipulation thinking to get it in that position. The club most certainly does not line up OVER the target line. Doing so would be HUGE pop out! :eek:

I'll get that sequence up soon. It is clearly shown with my 6iron swing.
 
Matt 4-L

Matt 4-L

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Pop golfs "keep the club in front of you" is basically the same thing as not popping out, just different terminolgy.
 
Notorious B.E.N.

Notorious B.E.N.

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Shot Limit said:
What exactly are you refering to when you say "popping out"?
Click to expand...

PGA.com :: Instruction

Here ya go Shot Limit. Go down to laying the club off on fundamentals and watch the vid by brian. Don't be afraid to ask questions even if you think they're dumb. I used to ask plenty of dumb questions and still do. I used to think throwaway and a sweep release were the same thing. Just use the search engine more.:)
 
Richie3Jack

Richie3Jack

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Yep, when I pop out I get laid off and it's so hard to drop the club down properly when you get laid off and IMO, if I had to choose one or the other I would take being 'across the line' over beng 'laid off' any day of the week.

IMO, part of the trick is to not 'pop out' but to also avoid over-doing it.



3JACK
 
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softconsult

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During my lesson with Brian he made a point of my tendency to popout. When I tried to correct it, he made the point that it should be corrected
with the body, not the arms.
 
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Leftyplayer

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I didn't realize that I was popping out till I watched the Soft Draw video. With my long irons and driver my ball flight was usually a fade to hard fade to sometimes slice. After watching the SD video and learned to keep my hands closer to my body on the takeaway and that made a huge difference. At first I was pulling them at times but with an adjustment to my grip, I had the NSA grip, I was hitting some nice draws.
 
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cnadon

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NHA 2.0

Does NHA 2.0 require some popout? I'm confused. It seems like to take it "up the wall" you need to pop-out somewhat. No?
 
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pecky987

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i believe popout with NHA2 is preferable A.) because it enables youo take the club up the wall and B.) it gets you more laid off, which makes it harder to come inside-out
 
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HowardK

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but what is the "first" move

excellent questions......and answers.....but....since we have (imo) established that the body starts the club back so no popout occurs , i ask the question

what is the very first movement of the body on the way back???

i have a follow-up but it depends on the answer i get to this one

thanks

hjack
 
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kc8kir

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Actually, I have come to the conclusion that everything moves away together. For me at least, thinking "move feet, move knees, move hips, move..." is way too much thinking for the swing.

Sam Snead echoed the same thing. Everything moves away together and the result is a synchronized backswing. Your downswing sequencing is certanly from the ground up, but that's because the downswing is reactive to a coiled backswing pivot.

For me at least, every moves away together. It works the best for me (and I've tried everything - hips first, hands first, head turn first, feet first). Blah. Just move away together and then wallop the ball. You don't see baseball players thinking "ok.. backswing starts with the feet moving X distance, then a hip rotation of X degrees, then my hands get here"... nope. They coil back in a smooth motion that represents the release of energy they have pictured in their mind for delivery into the baseball through the ball. Very much more downswing (or forward swing / hit) oriented then backswing "achieve X position" oriented.

Not saying it works for everyone, but "everything away together" works for me. If I take only the hands first, I popout and get disconnected. If I do only hips first, I whip the club inside the line and get stuck. If I do only feet first, I usually throw off my balance and end up all over the place.

So my answer is "it's a trick question". Everything moves away together.
 
Shot Limit

Shot Limit

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I gotta agree with kc8kir.

I don't think of my feet or knees, just hips and shoulders simultaneously. If done correctly it keeps stick on plane quite nicely.
 
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