Where's the beef?

[spider]

Notice that your debating in any logical manner here - mainly because you probably know who I am by now and know you would get crushed. Your arguement is basically - these people are smarter than me and I trust them. Thats not an arguement - thats just indolence.

and you are....?

 

[bronze_warrior]

and you are....?

Yes, I set out many statements in the most simplistic way I possibly could. I referenced the line of the longitudinal pull and I referenced a device that shows efficient energy transfer and that deviating from this line results in an inefficient transfer of energy. I referenced the device because if I described it in all its complexity people just wouldn't get it.

Let me use another analogy to keep this subject simple - imagine I am playing pool and I hit the cue ball onto object ball full on - the object ball gets more of that energy than if I hit it half ball. I mean this is so simple that a child could understand... so why would anyone say to hit the ball on any other spot on the clubface other than the point that the mass of the clubhead is most concentrated - this is simple stuff.

Basically what these people are saying is incorrect and provide no arguement to the contrary other than 'these people are smart and I trust them' and they know it.

 

[jbrunk]

Isn't the point of the forum to debate and learn? what would it be if everyone just took brian at his word, im sure he'd tell you he isn't right ALLL the time...maybe most of it though.... I for one am having a good time

If you are here to "debate and learn" then fine. Go take a look at some more of BW's posts, I am sure he is not here to debate.

 

[spider]

Basically what these people are saying is incorrect and provide no arguement to the contrary other than 'these people are smart and I trust them' and they know it.

Really? I thought Jim was comparing Equipment Manufacturers own Engineers vs. Homer Kelley. He seems to have made an educated choice. You pick Mr. Kelley and that is fine as well. Did Mr. Kelley get everything right in the book?

You may well be correct but your tact is lacking. I think we all understood your "simplistic" model and your point.

 

[curtisj76]

Yes, I set out many statements in the most simplistic way I possibly could. I referenced the line of the longitudinal pull and I referenced a device that shows efficient energy transfer and that deviating from this line results in an inefficient transfer of energy. I referenced the device because if I described it in all its complexity people just wouldn't get it.

Let me use another analogy to keep this subject simple - imagine I am playing pool and I hit the cue ball onto object ball full on - the object ball gets more of that energy than if I hit it half ball. I mean this is so simple that a child could understand... so why would anyone say to hit the ball on any other spot on the clubface other than the point that the mass of the clubhead is most concentrated - this is simple stuff.

Basically what these people are saying is incorrect and provide no arguement to the contrary other than 'these people are smart and I trust them' and they know it.

I believe Spider was asking who are you? You know, the person behind the keystrokes. No reason for secrecy is there?

 

[spider]

I believe Spider was asking who are you? You know, the person behind the keystrokes. No reason for secrecy is there?

You are correct Curtisj76.

 

[matt kluck]

Bronze Warrior,
You make a few good points and many on the forum appreciate them I am sure?! "Who are you?" is a good question because I always believe credibilty should benefit the stater of the obvious.
MK

 

[birdie_man]

I still have no idea what argument bronze is making.

(and I'm speaking of the mechanics.....not of all the other BS going on)

You are saying one can dangle a club to find it's sweetspot? I don't get it.

BTW I also have no idea who you are. I really don't think anyone's worried about getting "crushed" BTW. You probably made some people laugh a bit. (just to let you know)

Go take a look at some more of BW's posts, I am sure he is not here to debate.

That's right. Seems to me he's here to try to tell everyone how it is.

There's something to be said about trying to make an argument but.....

 

[tongzilla]

You could just buy one of these to help you understand the concept as to why your statement above is incorrect.

I'll try and explain this to you in a way that you can understand - in the most basic and simple terms. The clubhead is a moving mass that is always pulling in the direction of the longitudinal center of gravity. Whenever you deviate from this line you don't get the efficient energy transfer as depicted by the device in the picture.

Spend a month or two rereading the golfing machine as you fail to grasp this very basic concept.

What if I put a tiny marshmallow at that spot? Should I still try to hit the the point that passes through the longitudinal center of gravity?

 

[tbone69]

Bronze,
We are all sure that you are a bright guy, with your $3 words and all.
You may want to take a course in human nature to further your education. The air of superior intelligence in your posts leads me to believe that you are lacking in other areas of your life. At the end of the day, your posts lose their credibility because all we can focus is that you are a tool.

Yes, I set out many statements in the most simplistic way I possibly could. I referenced the line of the longitudinal pull and I referenced a device that shows efficient energy transfer and that deviating from this line results in an inefficient transfer of energy. I referenced the device because if I described it in all its complexity people just wouldn't get it.

Let me use another analogy to keep this subject simple - imagine I am playing pool and I hit the cue ball onto object ball full on - the object ball gets more of that energy than if I hit it half ball. I mean this is so simple that a child could understand... so why would anyone say to hit the ball on any other spot on the clubface other than the point that the mass of the clubhead is most concentrated - this is simple stuff.

Basically what these people are saying is incorrect and provide no arguement to the contrary other than 'these people are smart and I trust them' and they know it.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Notice that your debating in any logical manner here - mainly because you probably know who I am by now and know you would get crushed. Your arguement is basically - these people are smarter than me and I trust them. Thats not an arguement - thats just indolence.

You are probably are smarter than me, that doesn't matter. The fact remains that sweetspots on clubs can be on different places on the face.

Bridgestone themselves admitted that part of the reason they redesigned the J33 blade was because the long hosel design of that iron, while raising the cog to help with keeping the ball down, pushed the sweetspot too far towards the heel for it to be an effective iron in the market.

Also, the majority of iron makers are now trying to shift weight out of the heel and more towards the toe to move the sweetspot towards the center of the face. Look at any of Titleists' recent offerings and you'll see that.

So, like i said, i'll believe the engineers who are designing these clubs over Homer Kelley or you. So as i said, sorry but true.

 

[tongzilla]

You are probably are smarter than me, that doesn't matter. The fact remains that sweetspots on clubs can be on different places on the face.

Bridgestone themselves admitted that part of the reason they redesigned the J33 blade was because the long hosel design of that iron, while raising the cog to help with keeping the ball down, pushed the sweetspot too far towards the heel for it to be an effective iron in the market.

Also, the majority of iron makers are now trying to shift weight out of the heel and more towards the toe to move the sweetspot towards the center of the face. Look at any of Titleists' recent offerings and you'll see that.

So, like i said, i'll believe the engineers who are designing these clubs over Homer Kelley or you. So as i said, sorry but true.

Jim, do you think the sweetspot can be in a location other than the longitudinal center of gravity?

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Its not a matter of experiment, if you are familiar with the book "the golfing machine" written by Homer Kelley, you will find that the sweetspot is a precise spot on the clubface. If you dangle the club and use a plumb bob this will precisely show the sweetspot. A plumb bob is basically a weight on the end of a string. The string will represent what is called the longitudinal center of gravity. The clubhead is no more than a moving mass and this mass is guided by certain principles found in physics. I don't want to confuse you too much so I will keep it simple as possible and use an analogy. You can find the same effect when you whirl a rock on a piece of string.

Actually, by doing it this way you have determined a Line across the clubface not a sweet "spot", which was the original question.

 

[Tom Bartlett]

Now, if you wnt to find the spot, hang the club by the grip end and using a golf ball tap it on the face of the club. When the club swings straght back without twisting you are pretty darn close. It will also have the best sound when you hit it on the spot.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Now, if you wnt to find the spot, hang the club by the grip end and using a golf ball tap it on the face of the club. When the club swings straght back without twisting you are pretty darn close. It will also have the best sound when you hit it on the spot.

Tom, this method will let you, in fact, only find a vertical line on the face that covers the sweetspot and run along the clubface, not the very sweetspot. In order to find exactly the spot (point) you should additionally know where is the CoG of the head located in a horizontal sense. But the method is very good anyhow if you want to know the sweetspot "zone".

Cheers

 

[tongzilla]

Tom, this method will let you, in fact, only find a vertical line on the face that covers the sweetspot and run along the clubface, not the very sweetspot. In order to find exactly the spot (point) you should additionally know where is the CoG of the head located in a horizontal sense. But the method is very good anyhow if you want to know the sweetspot "zone".

Cheers

I think Tom intended the tapping be across and vertical, covering both possibilities.

 

[Tom Bartlett]

I think Tom intended the tapping be across and vertical, covering both possibilities.

Yes, Leo. That is why I added the last sentence.