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Zztop

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Anything, even completely disagreeing with science, is valid if it helps learning golf.

It comes back always to the same thing - feel versus real, they don’t usually match.

Feel is kingdom for golfers and teachers alike whereas real is a playground for scientists

Amen
 
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Zztop

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dbl said:
Was it mandrin, as a rough rewording of his science versus feel stuff at the bottom of this post?

http://www.brianmanzella.com/forum/golfing-discussions/5862-sweet-spot-plane-5.html#post69130
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Bingo! Just wondering where the great orange has been? :) Another quote of his: Brian, I have no problem with your post for the simple reason that you remain exclusively in the domain of FEEL. And proper identifiable repeatable feel is THE important ingredient in golf. [^]

I wonder if he still feels that way?
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
The Most Important Thing in Golf (to the golfer)

Is "feel" the most important thing in golf?

Hell no.


KNOWLEDGE is power, and king, and therefore, the most important thing by a long shot.

This whole "FEEL" thing is being perpetrated by two groups—one, the TGM Book literalists, and two, the "I am scared of real science AND faux science in golf" crowd.

I know I am right on this.

And I prove it EVERYDAY I help someone on the lesson tee.

I have the knowledge, they have neither the "feel" or the knowledge.

I make an adjustment, and it often makes things better on the next ball.

Don't be scared of knowledge.

The TRUTH will set you free. :D
 
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garymag

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Brian Manzella said:
And I prove it EVERYDAY I help someone on the lesson tee.

I have the knowledge, they have neither the "feel" or the knowledge.

I make an adjustment, and it often makes things better on the next ball.

Don't be scared of knowledge.

The TRUTH will set you free. :D
Click to expand...


Brian proved it again on Saturday when we worked together at 'DA Turn":D

Hopefully, with Brian's patience I will get the knowledge in my coconut.
 
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Ryan Smither

Super Moderator
first off, no one has ever asked me: do you want feel, or, do you want knowledge? pick one.

i'll take a teacher with knowledge, that knows when and what knowledge the student actually needs.

as far as what knowledge the student needs and whether they can know too much--this is debateable in my eyes. this is also a discussion that need not be: you can have all the knowledge or no knowledge--pick one. there is certain knowledge that is useful for a golfer, and probably plenty of knowledge that the golfer need not know.

say that a golfer has developed great feel over years of practice, and then he learns that his stroke is not optimal or that there are a few flaws in his stroke? do you abandon all the "feel" for a certain pattern in order to pursue perfection?
 
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Zztop

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Ryan Smither said:
first off, no one has ever asked me: do you want feel, or, do you want knowledge? pick one.

i'll take a teacher with knowledge, that knows when and what knowledge the student actually needs.

as far as what knowledge the student needs and whether they can know too much--this is debateable in my eyes. this is also a discussion that need not be: you can have all the knowledge or no knowledge--pick one. there is certain knowledge that is useful for a golfer, and probably plenty of knowledge that the golfer need not know.

say that a golfer has developed great feel over years of practice, and then he learns that his stroke is not optimal or that there are a few flaws in his stroke? do you abandon all the "feel" for a certain pattern in order to pursue perfection?
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How did he develop the flaws in his stroke? Bad mechanics? since he has great feel how did he get flaws? Bad knowledge? The question remains how would you teach a person that is blind from birth and let's throw in deaf also just for fun. HE STILL HAS A BRAIN TO PROCESS YOUR KNOWLEDGE! Prove how good of a teacher you are, what tools are you going to use?
 
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garymag

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Once the ball-striking goes south, how does the "feel" player correct the swing if the knowledge isn't there? They then try different 'feels' or seek help from the person in the next stall at the range and get totally lost - I know from experience. I would rather have the knowledge and then get the feel from the proper positions in the swing.

Good topic!
 
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Zztop

Guest
garymag said:
Once the ball-striking goes south, how does the "feel" player correct the swing if the knowledge isn't there? They then try different 'feels' or seek help from the person in the next stall at the range and get totally lost - I know from experience. I would rather have the knowledge and then get the feel from the proper positions in the swing.

Good topic!
Click to expand...

So you need both?
 
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garymag

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Zztop said:
So you need both?
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Personally, I would like both, but that is the best situation. If I had to pick only one, I would go with knowledge, but then again I would like to have the feel. Great question/topic!

Most golfers are classified as either 'feel' or 'mechanical'. Charles Howell, III comes to mind as the so called critics say he is too mechanical and needs to rely more on instinct/feel. I would think that the really great players have some of both.
 
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Zztop

Guest
Also let me say i never read TGM ,have no knowledge about it and could care less if it never was written. I have nothing against science, matter of fact i love science, everything that challenges someones beliefs, doesn't have to be about an agenda. It could be about the search for the truth, or about credible knowledge, i'm not against that!

Also it's not about picking one or the other, feel or knowledge. It's about golf instructors thinking feel is overided by just knowledge and mechanics! You can have all the knowledge and all the mechanics but their useless with out application, how do you apply it and how do you get feedback, it's a two way street this brain signal stuff!
 
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pecky987

New
in playing better golf - feel is king. easy. i have large knowledge of the golf swing. still shoot reguarly in the mid 80's

in getting people to play better golf - knowledge comes out on top.

right now i know which one i'd prefer
 
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Ryan Smither

Super Moderator
pecky987 said:
in playing better golf - feel is king. easy. i have large knowledge of the golf swing. still shoot reguarly in the mid 80's

in getting people to play better golf - knowledge comes out on top.

right now i know which one i'd prefer
Click to expand...

leave it to the englishman to state it simply. i agree with pecky.

tiger's the king of this kingdom. i'd say he has oodles more feel than knowledge. does that mean he can't use a little more knowledge?
 
tourdeep

tourdeep

New
Brian Manzella said:
Is "feel" the most important thing in golf?

Hell no.


KNOWLEDGE is power, and king, and therefore, the most important thing by a long shot.

This whole "FEEL" thing is being perpetrated by two groups—one, the TGM Book literalists, and two, the "I am scared of real science AND faux science in golf" crowd.

I know I am right on this.

And I prove it EVERYDAY I help someone on the lesson tee.

I have the knowledge, they have neither the "feel" or the knowledge.

I make an adjustment, and it often makes things better on the next ball.

Don't be scared of knowledge.

The TRUTH will set you free. :D
Click to expand...

knowledge don't mean shit for power. It is the application of that knowledge that can attain power.
 
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puttmad

New
My preference is initially to have knowledge..
If you then hit enough balls, you will gain feel, it can't be avoided...

Then you have both, which is the most desirable outcome..

Whereas if you only have feel, that's all you will ever have...
 
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