Why do some TGM players & teachers abandon TGM
- Thread starter mclare
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Brian Manzella
Administrator
DownSTROKE blackout.
It's in the little yellow book.
It's in the little yellow book.
mgjordan
New
I am not sure what it means in TGM, but Croker uses it to mean that you lose clubhead awareness (lag pressure) in the downswing. And Croker does want you to monitor the clubhead, but the way you monitor the clubhead is by feeling it in the HANDS. The mind is in the hands and Croker wouldn't disagree with that. He is all about the hands controlling the swing from start to finish. Croker wants you to use an outward force in the golfswing. He beleives that an outward (forward, down, and OUT) force is a pushing force because pushing moves an object away from you whereas pulling brings an object into you. He uses pushing and throwing interchangeably. He wants you to throw the clubhead down, out, and forward in a STRAIGHT LINE from the top of the swing down to the golf ball and through it while maintaining "clubhead awareness" (pressure/lag) in the hands. I can tell you that he most definantly wants a flat left wrist through the shot.
Listen, I'm not saying that Croker's terminology is 100% correct and I'm not saying he is the best teacher ever or that his method is the best. I am saying that he has some very interesting and solid ideas about the swing and that when I took lessons using his theories, I improved my swing and my ball striking. A teacher doesn't have to know TGM or use the correct terms while teaching as long as the students swing ends up adhering to TGM. If a student swing too much inside out, a teacher will TEACH HIM that the golf swing is an OVER THE TOP MOVE and that he needs to swing OUT TO IN. Is this correct? NO. It is not correct. However, the student needs to think he is swinging over the plane to get on plane. If a student comes over the top, the teacher needs to TEACH HIM to swing 40* to right field. Will the student really do it? No, but he tries to do it and ends up swinging on plane. In golf, there is a huge difference between perceptions, intentions, exertions, and fact/reality. They hardly ever match up.
Listen, I'm not saying that Croker's terminology is 100% correct and I'm not saying he is the best teacher ever or that his method is the best. I am saying that he has some very interesting and solid ideas about the swing and that when I took lessons using his theories, I improved my swing and my ball striking. A teacher doesn't have to know TGM or use the correct terms while teaching as long as the students swing ends up adhering to TGM. If a student swing too much inside out, a teacher will TEACH HIM that the golf swing is an OVER THE TOP MOVE and that he needs to swing OUT TO IN. Is this correct? NO. It is not correct. However, the student needs to think he is swinging over the plane to get on plane. If a student comes over the top, the teacher needs to TEACH HIM to swing 40* to right field. Will the student really do it? No, but he tries to do it and ends up swinging on plane. In golf, there is a huge difference between perceptions, intentions, exertions, and fact/reality. They hardly ever match up.
Archie Swivel
New
Brian,
Will you please write a book called, "G.O.L.F. for People who are not Dorks" please. I received my yellow book in the mail yesterday and I had some trouble with the first 30 pages last night. Spent 5 minutes per page. Hope the rest of the book gets easier. Been through four years of undergrad and three years of law school and I've never had to read a freaking sentence so many times to understand it. Maybe that's why some people abandoned it-- their peers did have time to try to understand them.
Arch
Will you please write a book called, "G.O.L.F. for People who are not Dorks" please. I received my yellow book in the mail yesterday and I had some trouble with the first 30 pages last night. Spent 5 minutes per page. Hope the rest of the book gets easier. Been through four years of undergrad and three years of law school and I've never had to read a freaking sentence so many times to understand it. Maybe that's why some people abandoned it-- their peers did have time to try to understand them.
Arch
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Homer has a list in the book for recommended reading order in the preface...follow that first.
Welcome to the club, Archie. It does that time to study. Use all the forums on TGM for help. Stay basic, one step at a time. I like Chapter 10 for an overall and go from there. Of course Homer's approach in the preface can't be beat.
Check this out too:
http://pub209.ezboard.com/bthetruthaboutthegolfswing9747
Its an old Evans forum with a ton of good TGM explanation.
Its a tough read but the application is so simply that you have to wonder about the effectiveness of language in the learning process sometimes.
Lastly, not here, but on the offical TGM forum, Brian posts detailed, yet simply explainations about the book.
http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/
We'll quiz you on the Star System Traid this Monday. LOL
Thanks ppt3, now Brian and I know where it is. So...
Crocker's (still) silly term "backswing blackout" has NOTHING to do with Homer's "Downstroke blackout."
Pc is refering to a lack of feeling of the clubhead he so sorely wants to push. Again a limiting application. And...
Homer is talking about the waggle, the great rehearsal as Ben calls it, along with what Yoda explained to me, the importance of extensor action as part of the waggle.
Thanks ppt3.
DivotDelight
New
I wonder if it has to do with the difficulty of loading the lag onto the #3Pressure Point, which is essential for the downstroke. It is hit or miss for me,day to day, and then the downstroke blackout begins. At the range this morning, nothing but shanks ,tops, and mi****s galore. The day before, was finally hitting my 5 iron and my pitch shots were nice and crisp. My luck, loading the lag onto the #3Pressure point, is the one pressure point I can't consistently attain. Too bad driving the #1 or #2 Pressure Points isn't the main method.
rcw
New
6b1d,
I do not know what croker call's it. You originally wrote downswing blackout not back swing black out. DownSTROKE blackout( Thanks Brian) is in TGM where you read it. Homer is not using downstroke blackout to refer to the waggle. He is talking about rehearsing every thing that happens during the downstroke and through impact, so that you know exactly what you are trying to accomplish and not just guessing about what happens at impact. Not knowing would be "Downstroke blackout" which most golfers have.
I do not know what croker call's it. You originally wrote downswing blackout not back swing black out. DownSTROKE blackout( Thanks Brian) is in TGM where you read it. Homer is not using downstroke blackout to refer to the waggle. He is talking about rehearsing every thing that happens during the downstroke and through impact, so that you know exactly what you are trying to accomplish and not just guessing about what happens at impact. Not knowing would be "Downstroke blackout" which most golfers have.
I understand. On Crocker’s url, posted in the beginning of this thread, he uses the tern “Downswing blackout” when talking about golfers that “pull.” I was then told it came from Homer and it doesn’t. Homer uses the term “Downstroke blackout.” I hope I didn’t imply that the waggle caused this ‘stroke blackout. I tried to explain that the waggle was a rehearsal of the swing to avoid this. I was glad, with the help of ppt3, to discover that Crocker and Homer we not on the same page.
I think other than Brian and Chuck who are promoting and using TGM for teaching, many AI do not. When I am trying to locate an AI for lesson, I am not too sure if s/he will be teaching TGM stuff. Eg. In Mike Hebron's website, he not even mention he is a GSED! Also, many are still teaching one method.
How can TGM be promoted this way?
How can TGM be promoted this way?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
In my opinion....
Being an Authorized Instructor of The Golfing Machine should be promoted this way:
Brian Manzella holds a Doctorate In Golf Stroke Enginneering from The Golfing Machine...Ron Noel holds a Master's degree in Golf Stroke Engineering...what they TEACH is up to them. Period.
If someone (a golfer) wants to go to a 'non-degreed' instructor, have at it.
But that's it.
"The Book (The Golfing Machine) can support individual "MY Way" procedures but no "THE Way" theory."----Homer Kelley
So if an AI wants to teach a four-barrel swing with angled hinging, that's HIS WAY...go for it.
If Mike Hebron wants to focus on the LEARNING METHOD, but still gets the three imperatives....go ahead.
All enginneers wouldn't build a bridge the same way...would they?
Being an Authorized Instructor of The Golfing Machine should be promoted this way:
Brian Manzella holds a Doctorate In Golf Stroke Enginneering from The Golfing Machine...Ron Noel holds a Master's degree in Golf Stroke Engineering...what they TEACH is up to them. Period.
If someone (a golfer) wants to go to a 'non-degreed' instructor, have at it.
But that's it.
"The Book (The Golfing Machine) can support individual "MY Way" procedures but no "THE Way" theory."----Homer Kelley
So if an AI wants to teach a four-barrel swing with angled hinging, that's HIS WAY...go for it.
If Mike Hebron wants to focus on the LEARNING METHOD, but still gets the three imperatives....go ahead.
All enginneers wouldn't build a bridge the same way...would they?
Talk about your Hall of Fame Posts.
Homer’s book is an enigma. Is it a catalog? Maybe it’s a system, or instruction book. Are there multiply millions of swings or less then a handful?
Mr. Kelly wrote a wonderful book about the golf swing. Everything either pales in comparison or borrows from it.
Mr. Kelly may have wanted a specific method taught, maybe not. I’m sure at first he didn’t, maybe he changed his mind later in life. Like raising kids, goals change, and TGM was Homer's child. That is why he love it so and need to protect it. My guess is that later in life, Homer saw a swing method in his work that worked best. This does NOT mean we have to abide to it completely.
In the real world, AIs need to develop a system, an off the rack size 42 regular and make alterations from there. Good AIs can, I know Brian can, but not all AIs are cut from the same cloth. I hope the new owners can weed the bad ones out.
Hope your golf is going well.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Of course nobody seems to think that an AI, any AI, may have come up with a beter procedure than Homer for teaching the three imperatives....
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