Why does "TGM Hinge Action" produce different ball flights?

[JeffM]

Jim

What isn't possible?

I have frequently ball flight patterns where the ball starts straight and either remains straight, or turns slightly leftwards/rightwards at the end of the ball flight trajectory. I have even noted that a number of TGM instructors (eg. Tom Tomasello) state that they can produce these ball flight variations by altering their hinging patterns.

I am not at all implying that it is due to club closing/opening while the ball is in contact with the clubface.

Jeff.

 

[Kevin Shields]

The path numbers would all be different.

 

[Zztop]

It isn't possible; the ball stays on the face for roughly 0.00004 (maybe 1 too many zeros but you get the point) and the face during that same 0.0004 is not rotating no where near enough to influence any type of ball flight.

It is simply the D-plane; where was the face/path/downward strike going at impact.

That's it.

exactly,
the face at impact is always pointing somewhere, but it isn't pointing somewhere and then pointing somewhere else at the same time i.e. .00004 or whatever that fraction of time is. it's either pointing there or it isn't. the ball is long gone. there is no time, that's why they call it impact. good luck trying! it's the ball that spins not the clubface.

 

[JeffM]

The path numbers would all be different.

I certainly could imagine that the path numbers could be different, but they are still tracing a SPL while aiming at the target - during their hinge action variations.

Jeff.

 

[Kevin Shields]

These "hinge actions" apparently alter the face. If you trace a straight plane line, hit down on the ball, and had different face angles due to "hinge action" none of the balls (possibly horizontal hinging - or rolling) would start on the target line unless you missed the sweetspot.

 

[Brian Manzella]

These "hinge actions" apparently alter the face. If you trace a straight plane line, hit down on the ball, and had different face angles due to "hinge action" none of the balls (possibly horizontal hinging - or rolling) would start on the target line unless you missed the sweetspot.

100% true.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim

What isn't possible?

To be able to "time" the exact moment in roughly a 1.2 second swing traveling over 80mph (that should encompass all clubs) with a ball that stays on the clubface for 0.00004 seconds to change ball flight. Sidenote: did you know that by the time you feel impact the ball is LONG GONE?

I have frequently ball flight patterns where the ball starts straight and either remains straight, or turns slightly leftwards/rightwards at the end of the ball flight trajectory.

You are proving our argument for us; if you were really hitting a straight shot it wouldn't fall left or right. What you are "seeing" is the effect of the spin axis after the ball speed has slowed down enough for it to take effect.

I have even noted that a number of TGM instructors (eg. Tom Tomasello) state that they can produce these ball flight variations by altering their hinging patterns.

So can anyone that has any type of clubface control or even at the least, an OK short game. What you either refuse to believe or admit is that hinging isn't possible while the ball is on the face. You can deliver the clubface at impact at certain degrees open/closed to the path you had it travel on to change flight; but that is it. That is what brian was showing in that video: same path; different face angles created different ball flights. Now what you can do is fudge the path with those different face angles to still get the ball to start on your target line.

I am not at all implying that it is due to club closing/opening while the ball is in contact with the clubface.

That's what hinging is and it isn't possible

 

[JeffM]

These "hinge actions" apparently alter the face. If you trace a straight plane line, hit down on the ball, and had different face angles due to "hinge action" none of the balls (possibly horizontal hinging - or rolling) would start on the target line unless you missed the sweetspot.

I have no idea what those "hinge actions" do in terms of clubface orientation and path. I was hoping that you or Brian could answer that question. I only know that a number of TGM-trained experts can hit the ball straight with a slight draw at the end of the ball flight, or straight with a slight fade at the end of the ball flight, by variably using either horizontal hinging or angled hinging actions - while still keeping their clubshaft on-plane through impact (by tracing a SPL).

Jeff.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I have no idea what those "hinge actions" do in terms of clubface orientation and path. I was hoping that you or Brian could answer that question. I only know that a number of TGM-trained experts can hit the ball straight with a slight draw at the end of the ball flight, or straight with a slight fade at the end of the ball flight, by variably using either horizontal hinging or angled hinging actions - while still keeping their clubshaft on-plane through impact (by tracing a SPL).

Jeff.

No they can't.


Period.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I have no idea what those "hinge actions" do in terms of clubface orientation and path. I was hoping that you or Brian could answer that question. I only know that a number of TGM-trained experts can hit the ball straight with a slight draw at the end of the ball flight, or straight with a slight fade at the end of the ball flight, by variably using either horizontal hinging or angled hinging actions - while still keeping their clubshaft on-plane through impact (by tracing a SPL).

Jeff.

As Brian said, no they can't. Put them on a trackman and you were see various changes to path/face

 

[JeffM]

Jim

I would personally be very interested in seeing those Trackman results, so that I could better understand what is really happening.

Jeff.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Jim

I would personally be very interested in seeing those Trackman results, so that I could better understand what is really happening.

Jeff.

Only one problem.

Those "experts" will RUN and HIDE before they take the TrackMan test.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

Jim

I would personally be very interested in seeing those Trackman results, so that I could better understand what is really happening.

Jeff.

Go find the closest one and rent some time on one with a QUALIFIED person who can interpret the results for you.

 

[dbl]

Can I say just bring up angled hinging for a sec? It ought to be the easiest one to do mental thinking with. For an iron, the clubhead is cutting through the plane and impacts the ball and though we think it "should" go straight instead it goes right. Brian's video on page 1 shows that; Tomasello and others say that too, but no real explanation as I recall. However from the D Plane analysis, since impact is before low point there is an outward component and so the ball goes right. Simple.