why is ernie so smooth?

[tongzilla]

I finally figured this out!

Why are players like Ernie, Mike Finney, Fred Couples, etc. so damn smooth and rhythmic? Because they need to be!

And why are some other great ball strikers such as Tiger, Tom Bartlett and Lee Trevino not so smooth looking? Because they don't need to be!

 

[JeffM]

That's not a rational biomechanical explanation. It's like saying that some golfers have a fast tempo because they need to have a fast tempo, while other golfers have a slow tempo because they need to have a slow tempo. That type of explanation is self-referential and not explanatory.

Jeff.

 

[tongzilla]

That's not a rational biomechanical explanation. It's like saying that some golfers have a fast tempo because they need to have a fast tempo, while other golfers have a slow tempo because they need to have a slow tempo. That type of explanation is self-referential and not explanatory.

Jeff.

well, it's an explanation for ME, because I used a pattern that necessitates a super smooth rhythm without realizing. Figuring this out helped me choose which pattern I should use.

 

[starretj]

That's not a rational biomechanical explanation. It's like saying that some golfers have a fast tempo because they need to have a fast tempo, while other golfers have a slow tempo because they need to have a slow tempo. That type of explanation is self-referential and not explanatory.

Jeff.

Your right Jeff, but Leo didn't say his analysis was a biomechanical explanation. He said he figured it out. Since you don't believe him, why don't you enlighten us?

Jim S.

 

[StewartBannatyne]

That's not a rational biomechanical explanation. It's like saying that some golfers have a fast tempo because they need to have a fast tempo, while other golfers have a slow tempo because they need to have a slow tempo. That type of explanation is self-referential and not explanatory.

Jeff.

Biomechanically correct or not, are you saying that Nick Price could slow his tempo down and still be as effective a ball striker? Or Ernie could go at it like Tiger, and be a top five player in the world?

Stew

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

I think a lot of it has to do with WHERE and HOW you create speed in the swing. Most players that have much more delay tend to look smoother than those that don't.

 

[birdie_man]

I think Leo has a point......I also assume it has to do with individual style.

 

[ClubCaster]

Chicken or egg?

I think a lot of it has to do with WHERE and HOW you create speed in the swing. Most players that have much more delay tend to look smoother than those that don't.

Jim (and others),

Does a player's swing look smoother because it has more delay, or does it have more delay because it is smooth?

Thanks,
CC

 

[Leek]

hmmmm...chicken or the egg.

I can tell you I've been 10 feet away from Els while he was hitting drivers. He looks smooth, but his tempo is pretty quick. From watching him, I thought he just hit the crap out the ball with a very efficient pivot.


BTW- up close Ernie is HUGE!

 

[mpro]

I have Els on video. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to keep up with his tempo when swing along side the monitor. He's light speed, just super smooth.

 

[tongzilla]

I think Leo has a point......I also assume it has to do with individual style.

Yes, I have a point!

The point is, with Ernie, Couples, Snead (old driver) or Mike Finney's swing, because of their long arm swing and various other factors, they need to have a superb and super smooth rhythm in order to find the fairway (i.e. square face + straight plane line). Their swing relies a lot on timing (not necessarily a bad thing).

However, with Tiger (i am talking about iron Tiger, not driver Tiger), Perry or Hogan, their swings can let them over accelerate a little and still hit it roughly where they want. Timing is not the crucial factor. What is timing? Lots of things. One of them is knowing when to start down the pivot when your arms are still going back.

 

[tongzilla]

I have Els on video. You wouldn't believe how hard it is to keep up with his tempo when swing along side the monitor. He's light speed, just super smooth.

It's slightly easier to keep up with the Classic Swing Els. You also don't have to imitate the hitch in the transition .

 

[tank]

Yes, I have a point!

The point is, with Ernie, Couples, Snead (old driver) or Mike Finney's swing, because of their long arm swing and various other factors, they need to have a superb and super smooth rhythm in order to find the fairway (i.e. square face + straight plane line). Their swing relies a lot on timing (not necessarily a bad thing).

However, with Tiger (i am talking about iron Tiger, not driver Tiger), Perry or Hogan, their swings can let them over accelerate a little and still hit it roughly where they want. Timing is not the crucial factor. What is timing? Lots of things. One of them is knowing when to start down the pivot when your arms are still going back.

I cant find any evidence that anyone really does this. In full swing video it sometimes looks that way, but in all the super slow-mo vids I have looked at it is proven otherwise. It must be an illusion of the transition.

 

[goley]

i remember brian mentioned this some where on the site.... that the arms are loading as the pivot starts the downswing and this makes it look like the lower body is moving forward as the upperbody is completing the backswing.... but really it is not something you should try to do... ill look for the post and add the link if i can find it!

 

[magic43]

goley,
I think that Brian talks about that very thing in one of the YouTube video's. Believe it was the one about the Nicklaus swing.

 

[EdStraker]

i remember brian mentioned this some where on the site.... that the arms are loading as the pivot starts the downswing and this makes it look like the lower body is moving forward as the upperbody is completing the backswing.... but really it is not something you should try to do... ill look for the post and add the link if i can find it!

Sounds like float-loading

 

[Brian Manzella]

Leo has a point.

There is no doubt as to your assertion, Leo.

But, smooth also has to do with flexibility and swing length.

 

[tongzilla]

tank, goley, et al.

you are missing my point.

yes, the hands going back while pivot starts down is (mostly) an optical illusion.

but that's not what i'm talking about.

This is what I'm talking about: your pivot has to start down at some point in time. That's a fact. But when? When your hands has reached hip high, shoulder high or head high? That's one aspect of timing I was referring to in post #11.

 

[tank]

I understand, and it's a good point.

 

[birdie_man]

So the deal basically is....the further you swing your arms back the longer you have to wait for em before you give er power with your pivot...?