Wind Effecting Ball Flight Question

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dominicscaife

dominicscaife

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Frans@France said:
ball 139mph
launch angle 9.3 degree
backspin 2770
spin axis 0
--
carry 210.6 yard, apex +/-18 after 135 yards, side 0 yards
--
wind 50mph
direction 90 degree
--
carry 222 yards, apex +/- 20 after 140 yard, side 57 yards, curve starts at 25 yards
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Leon, did you miss the quoted post from Frans?

Frans, what was your data source?

This driver shot carries 11.4 yards further in 50mph crosswind compared to no wind.

I put it down to similiar reasons as you hinted towards

"(unless changes in fluid flow over the dimples affects the lift/drag, but you'd have to ask a fluids expert)."

I believe that's exactly the reason why this particularly shot would carry further because the shot was launched at a less than optimal angle.

So thinking about this a little deeper, the statement I made earlier would only apply to shots launched at a lower than optimal launch angle. Probably just very long irons, if any... and high lofted irons would actually go higher than normal due to that increased lift and therefore not go as far.

So I ran a few different launches with Trajectoware. After playing around with various options I'm a little worried that the way Trajectowares ball flight model doesn't account for wind very accurately.

Here's two calculations I ran through Trajectoware - I chose the optimum launch to maximise carry at 99mph club head speed. (20 degree seems crazy high, but according to Trajectoware that was the max carry)

1st data set is with a 50mph crosswind, carry 264
2nd data set is with no wind, carry 244.6

Carry Init Launch Back Side Side Head Attack Dyn Head Face to Face to Descent
Dist Veloc Angle Spin Angle Spin Speed Angle Loft Path Path Target Angle
264.0 144.9 20 2886.6 0 0 99 10.7 10.5 0 0 0 42.1
244.6 144.9 20 2886.6 0 0 99 10.7 10.5 0 0 0 47.4

So now I am not convinced.

What do the trackman users find when setting various crosswinds?
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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leon said:
If you have two shots with identical launch conditions, how can one be well struck and the other be a miss-hit?
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How about a heeled 6 iron and a pured 8 iron? Those two could end up with similar/identical launch conditions...
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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leon said:
Not sue how you come to that conclusion. In a perfect crosswind there is no way the wind can exert any force on the ball along the targetline, PERIOD (I always wanted to say that!).
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What about my theory? If a ball, flying straight, is being pushed sideways, the flight of the ball is now angular. So, that "perfect crosswind" is no longer 90 degrees, but more...perhaps 100 degrees. This means that there is now some force of the wind behind the ball...
 
mjstrong

mjstrong

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dominicscaife said:
Here's two calculations I ran through Trajectoware - I chose the optimum launch to maximise carry at 99mph club head speed. (20 degree seems crazy high, but according to Trajectoware that was the max carry)

1st data set is with a 50mph crosswind, carry 264
2nd data set is with no wind, carry 244.6
Click to expand...

Well, if the ball would end up 99.3 yards to the side, then this could make sense (I suppose that's at least possible with a 50mph crosswind). It could still account for a straight flight of 244.6 yards, and a ball ending up parallel to the fairway, but 99.3 yards offline, would have travelled a total distance of 264 yards.

Easy Trigonometry: Triangle Calculator

Not that I'm saying the software is correct, just playing devil's advocate...
 
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savydan

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That's what crossed my mind, mj, that 264 yards is the total traversed distance, not pure "lateral" distance.

Does Trajectoware still have the goofy inputs of Angle of Attack and Dynamic Loft with Dynamic Loft being defined with what Trackman and the rest of the world calls Spin Loft? This is a significant point for those who are using Trajectoware and don't know what I am talking about.
 
A

alocirga

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Just guessing but I'm thinking the more backspin the less the ball is affected. Kind of a gyroscopic effect maybe.

It's maybe not at all related but I remember a field goal kicker saying that trying to kick it higher (more revs/backspin?) into a wind produced the longest kicks.
 
L

leon

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dominicscaife said:
Leon, did you miss the quoted post from Frans?
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Looks like I did, sorry. Like others, I don't believe it is anything other than an increase in total distance, including the sideways motion. There is no way I can see that a lateral force can affect the targetwards component of motion.


dominicscaife said:
I had a dig around the Trajectoware forums.

Apparently the wind/lift algorithms are taken from here:

http://sections.asme.org/canaveral/Special/golf/asmegolf.pdf

It's pretty hardcore.
Click to expand...

Awesome link! Although I have to say that when I saw ASME I thought 'no, they can't have a standard for golf ball flight calcs, can they?' His calcs looke pretty much spot on, so I'm guessing all of his sensitivity studies (effect of temp, wind, etc) are all correct.
 
westy

westy

New
heading up.

Ball is less affected laterally at faster velocity, more at slower....so...
If you are playing in a crosswind, aim into it slightly and move it away to max out distance, vice versa to stabilize ball flight (to a tight flag for example....)
Say the wind is L to R. Head left into the breeze a bit and hit it high and help it move with a wee cut and it will sail.....lots of spin keeps it high, once it penetrates into the breeze and begins to cut before its apex, it is heading downwind more.
Ball in air 7 seconds. only going into wind for 2 of them, helping for 5.......
Scientific terminology.
Drag coefficient (Tapering)
50 mph wind at altitude is different to here.....
 
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