Working Game improvement irons
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cmartingolf
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I grab these clubs during lessons and don't have a problem hitting shots. If you can control the face, head and shaft, you can control the ball.
The shaft are typically soft, so I have to wait for things to load, but otherwise ball control is not a problem.
The problem is looking at the clubs. Generally, they are ugly!
The shaft are typically soft, so I have to wait for things to load, but otherwise ball control is not a problem.
The problem is looking at the clubs. Generally, they are ugly!
Chip Putterman
New
Playing with these clubs is like playing with training wheels. Get yourself some decent blades and some lessons and "learn to play". In the long run you will have much more fun.
tank
New
770CFE - Tom Wishon
Just had a custom set of these made for me. No problem working the ball with these and I'm a hacker who shoots low 80's to low 90's (low 70's to low 80's after Brian releases his short game videos
). I find they are more forgiving on off center hits though.
Just had a custom set of these made for me. No problem working the ball with these and I'm a hacker who shoots low 80's to low 90's (low 70's to low 80's after Brian releases his short game videos
). I find they are more forgiving on off center hits though.Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
No offense but that's a myth and it's crap. What % of players on the PGA TOUR use blades? Find that out and then come back to me.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
They generally are designed to go straight-er and spin a bit more so it might be a little more difficult to move around than a CB but it's doable.
No offense!
No offense Jim, But, what % of pga tour players don't have thier clubs custom designed through an endorsement deal to give them the exact characterisics they want in trajectory, spin etc. I think most of us are more interested in what the difference is between blades and shovels (forgiveness irons) you buy off the rack. I am not claiming to know and maybe you do? Are tour players really playing the same irons the advertisers want us to buy?
No offense Jim, But, what % of pga tour players don't have thier clubs custom designed through an endorsement deal to give them the exact characterisics they want in trajectory, spin etc. I think most of us are more interested in what the difference is between blades and shovels (forgiveness irons) you buy off the rack. I am not claiming to know and maybe you do? Are tour players really playing the same irons the advertisers want us to buy?
Walt,
Answer your own question here.....Ian Poulter's Cobra irons are $20k per set!.....
Now I wonder how good that makes the average $500 Cobra off-the-rack sets?.....
Now if you go back 15 years or so and can pick up a set of the first Cobra "oversize" made by Greg Norman's bunch, now that WAS a set of clubs.....quality steel, quality shafts...good gear....
Tommy Armour was another good one.. and Ping. to name but a few...
Average off-the-shelf clubs have gone way downhill since the move to the far eastern production facilities (Japs are OK tho)...poor metal, poor quality control..poor player....
Cmartin -I know I know, I love a beautiful blade or player forging too...but
770CFE - Tom Wishon
Just had a custom set of these made for me. No problem working the ball with these and I'm a hacker who shoots low 80's to low 90's (low 70's to low 80's after Brian releases his short game videos
Tank - Good looking set of irons; they look like 'player' cavities to me.
Jim - Thanks, that is encouraging. I do not want to live with just always straight as the art of golf is a high component of my enjoyment of the game.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Most of the time yes, there isn't gigantic differences in iron sets. Sometimes there are iron sets that are "tour only" and there are some iron sets designed to "look like" the retail set but are very different such as the Cleveland "C" stamped irons that were meant to look like the CG4 tours.
But the amount of players playing custom one off irons is very low, you are talking about a small group of the world's most talented players. If anything, SOMETIMES tour irons might having a wee bit less offset, possibly different sole grind, and ONCE IN A WHILE a COG alternation due to their swing speed.
But again, my point is that this whole notion of "play blades to really learn" is rubbish.
cmartingolf
New
Cmartin -I know I know, I love a beautiful blade or player forging too...but
Butts?
The fellow asked about "working" game improvement clubs. Who can "work" a club?? Guys who control the face
Which brings me to a new thread....
tank
New
Thanks. I love them (although I think the custom fitting has a lot to do with it). I was a little concerned about the offset at first because I've tried fairway woods with increased offset, and struggled not to hook them left of the planet ... but no such problem with these irons.
Chip Putterman
New
No offense Jim, but we both know that PGA TOUR pros use equipment based on contractual obligations.
"...these game-improvement irons trade the swing for the hit,because such irons can yield decent shots with undynamic swings.If you are ultimately concerned with improving your swing and not masking flaws, I suggest moving to a blade-type design." - Bobby Clampett, The Impact Zone pg.165
It is my assumption that people on this forum are here to improve their game and not the type that plays twice a year, carries a ball-retriever and has head covers for their irons.
"...these game-improvement irons trade the swing for the hit,because such irons can yield decent shots with undynamic swings.If you are ultimately concerned with improving your swing and not masking flaws, I suggest moving to a blade-type design." - Bobby Clampett, The Impact Zone pg.165
It is my assumption that people on this forum are here to improve their game and not the type that plays twice a year, carries a ball-retriever and has head covers for their irons.
go to youtube.......type in IN THE BAG, and come report on how many players use "blades".......
wait I will save you some time, NO MANY. Most of those guys are using a cavity back compontent to thier irons and ALL of them have a hybrid instead of a 2 or 3 iron..............makes me re-think the MP67s I just ordered.
PS.......not everyone that has headcovers on Irons is a hack, I know my new mp67s will have covers, b/c I dont like bag chatter marks and want them to stay looking new.
Just for the record....
I lean toward blades because I think that if you A) are NOT a pro who devotes all your energy to your game, but B) DO devote a lot of time and energy to getting better, then blades do provide you with some more feedback on your swing and shot. For example, if I scoop my wedge a little, it hits higher on the clubface and comes up slightly short.
I DO think you can work cavity back, game improvement irons. But they are designed to get the ball up in the air and spin less side to side, so you can't work them quite as much. Of course, today's ball spins less, etc., so no one is really working the ball like they used to. So my preference for blades isn't based on 'the ability to work the ball' with them. If I had to play just one round for all the money in the world, game improvement clubs would help me (and I DO play hybrids). But for the day-to-day love of the game and my effort to make more good swings tomorrow than I did today, I think blades help me just a little bit.
I play Wishon 555M blades. I also use iron covers to protect those gorgeous clubs - and given my current handicap I don't consider myself a total hack.
I lean toward blades because I think that if you A) are NOT a pro who devotes all your energy to your game, but B) DO devote a lot of time and energy to getting better, then blades do provide you with some more feedback on your swing and shot. For example, if I scoop my wedge a little, it hits higher on the clubface and comes up slightly short.
I DO think you can work cavity back, game improvement irons. But they are designed to get the ball up in the air and spin less side to side, so you can't work them quite as much. Of course, today's ball spins less, etc., so no one is really working the ball like they used to. So my preference for blades isn't based on 'the ability to work the ball' with them. If I had to play just one round for all the money in the world, game improvement clubs would help me (and I DO play hybrids). But for the day-to-day love of the game and my effort to make more good swings tomorrow than I did today, I think blades help me just a little bit.
I play Wishon 555M blades. I also use iron covers to protect those gorgeous clubs - and given my current handicap I don't consider myself a total hack.
+1
I have Scratch EZ1's which for all practical purposes are considered "game improvement irons." If I open the face or close it down I can get a draw or fade when I need too. (I can also really screw a hole up "attempting" to do either shot.) It was a lot easier to "work" the MP32's but the EZ1's can still do it. I find that with the EZ1's I don't need to bend the ball very often because I can usually go over whatever I need to get around.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Chip
yes players play irons with contractual obligations however i don't see how that's relevant? I personally don't care what Bobby thinks; it is pretty well accepted that Kenny Perry is a tremendous ballstriker and he was playing the Taylormade R7's, not the R7TPs or even the TP musclebacks however Sergio did. Every player plays what's best for them. Or what about Rory who uses GI type clubs with a lot of offset because he launches the ball too low with his move? Or what about Monty who used Callaway Big Bertha irons (yes the whole set) for a time? Or how about that really good seinor tour player who had adams build him hyrids to the 7 iron? I could keep going but you see my point.
Most pro's have ditched their 3 and 4 irons in favor of hybrids or at the least GI 3/4 irons but yet i still see them in many amatuer bags. Did you know that Hunter Mahan uses the 3/4 iron from the Ping Rapture set and the S57's for everthing else? Tiger even replaced his 2 iron with a 5 wood however people should realize he plays old school lofts and his 2 iron was the 3 iron loft that most others play.
Play with what allows you to play your best and when the ball striking gets better upgrade; this whole analogy is like giving a first time motorcycle rider a crotch rocket because it's more difficult to ride and they're learn better versus a more forgiving bike to learn fundamentals and then upgrade.
good way to get scraped up of pavement.......IE quit the game
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