You are who you THINK you are...

[Richie3Jack]

In my 28 years of teaching, fixing the mess left behind of all sorts of method teachers, including from when I was too reliant on a "pet pattern" in my youth, there is hardly anything as hard to fix, and have the player comfortable with in tournament play, then an over-rotated left arm flying wedge, and the laid-off top of the backswing.

I have had this problem lately as well. Probably went on for about 3 months. It takes a lot of practice and time with the video camera to get it out of your system...and you have to know how to fix it. Even still, it occasionally creeps into my swing and can cost me a shot. I was -3 going into 18 yesterday and a over-rotate the wedge and laid off move at the top caused me a triple bogey.

I disagree that Phil has not been helped with his association with Harmon. He was playing very poorly before Harmon and now he's more towards his days when he won his first Masters. He's not that good IMO, but much closer to that than he was right before he started working with Butch. His clubface looks a lot better int he downswing IMO as well. Could his swing be better? I honestly think it could and a lot better. But I think you'd have a hard time getting Phil to legitimately believe in that.

Back to Tiger, his swing is a real mess now. That's the root of the problem, not all this mental stuff. Maybe a golfer swinging like he's going to shoot a 68 comes in and shoot a 70 with the off course problems Tiger has. But shooting the scores Tiger has been shooting is due to bad golf swings and poor putting and IMO, it was just a matter of time given the issues with his swing and how his swing has regressed over the years. Even when he was winning with HH, his swing looked to regress every single year. Something had to give.





3JACK

 

[fronesis]

1. Tiger will win more majors.

2. All of the emotion/political/financial/family issues are clearly a huge factor in his poor showings this year, but it's also true that he has swing problems.

3. I think he will sort out his swing problems, but if I were his coach I'd be slightly more worried about his putting problems. I think Tiger has always had a young man's putting stroke (a lot of hands, a lot of release, a bit of wrist), but he's getting close to no longer being a young man. I think if he sticks with this putting stroke (and he's known no other) that he may never return to the putting dominance he once knew. But he can still win majors (see #1), just not as many.

 

[mgranato]

There is absolutely no question that Harmon has helped Phil, so has Pelz, and so has Stockton.

Saying that Tiger will be “back” (whatever back is) is a 50/50 guess. Will he win again, almost certainly. Will he win another major, probably. Will he catch Jack, maybe. Will he dominate, doubtful.

The most dominant athlete I’ve ever seen was Mike Tyson. He never regained his mojo despite many experts predicting he would.
“He just needs to get back in the ring (golf course) and starting fighting (playing) again.”
“He’s messed up from his divorce, once that’s over he’ll be back.”
“He’s not been the same since Guss (Earl) died.”
“He needs to dump Don King (Hank Haney).”

Any of this sound familiar? I wonder if the Korean translation for Buster Douglas is Y.E. Yang?

Maybe Tiger wins the next 5 majors, or maybe he’s entering the wilderness – I don’t think any predictions are too bold at the moment.

 

[willgolfer]

The most dominant athlete I’ve ever seen was Mike Tyson.

Ali > Tyson

 

[Richie3Jack]

Tyson dominated far more than Ali dominated. Tyson would destroy contenders in less than 3 rounds and made it look easy. That being said, a George Foreman in his prime would've killed Tyson because that squat down, peek-a-boo defensive style would've played right into Foreman's hands. Like Joe Frazier type of ugly.

But boxing is a completely different bird. One loss and these guys are almost always never the same. Foreman was probably more dominant than Tyson, lost a grueling battle against Ali where he pretty much won every round and was never the same.

Golf is different in that ego gets in the way and there's still way too much mystery involved with the instruction. For every instructor who truly has most of the answers, there's probably about 100 instructors who don't have a clue. And a lot of times golfers don't want to change their way of thinking because of silly pride in admitting that everything they've been working on was horribly flawed.

I think without question Tiger should win another major, but I think everything that has happened to him lately has shattered his confidence. It reminds me of my 5th grade teacher who once told me that he'd always take the A- student over the A+ student because the A- student has dealt with failure before (and this teacher had both of his sons go to West Point). Tiger has always had the world by the balls and now that he doesn't, things are turning out to be disastrous.






3JACK

 

[Erik_K]

I overheard a discussion at work saying that Tiger is 'done.'

Really?

He finished T-4 at both the Masters and US Open. This doesn't happen by chance, folks. And I think we'd all agree he's battling some swing and personal problems.

He'll bounce back.

 

[fronesis]

He finished T-4 at both the Masters and US Open. This doesn't happen by chance, folks.

Exactly.

 

[aaron_lohan]

He played terribly in 2003 and 2004 his superb putting and short game prevented too many performances like last week, people were writing him off then like they are now, he will come back and he might have periods like 2005-2006 where he is dominant but they will be shorter in duration. I stick my neck out and say he will still beat Jack's record, even if he quit altogether he would return, he has too much ego to call it a day on his career, i think he will still be after winning majors in his 50s.

As for Phil and the title of this thread, i wonder whether Phil takes pleasure in been known as a talented player with a poor swing and lack of work ethic.

 

[duckjr78]

He played terribly in 2003 and 2004 his superb putting and short game prevented too many performances like last week, people were writing him off then like they are now, he will come back and he might have periods like 2005-2006 where he is dominant but they will be shorter in duration. I stick my neck out and say he will still beat Jack's record, even if he quit altogether he would return, he has too much ego to call it a day on his career, i think he will still be after winning majors in his 50s.

As for Phil and the title of this thread, i wonder whether Phil takes pleasure in been known as a talented player with a poor swing and lack of work ethic.

I'm pretty sure "lack of work ethic" isn't anywhere close to how he's known.

 

[Erik_K]

He played terribly in 2003 and 2004 his superb putting and short game prevented too many performances like last week, people were writing him off then like they are now, he will come back and he might have periods like 2005-2006 where he is dominant but they will be shorter in duration. I stick my neck out and say he will still beat Jack's record, even if he quit altogether he would return, he has too much ego to call it a day on his career, i think he will still be after winning majors in his 50s.

As for Phil and the title of this thread, i wonder whether Phil takes pleasure in been known as a talented player with a poor swing and lack of work ethic.

You think Phil has a poor swing?

 

[trickyric67]

my useless 2 cents.
1. Phil has always been streaky, both bad and good. He charges like Palmer and if not for Tiger he would be the king of majors and wins. He posted some awesome runs but Tiger was not of this world at the time.
2. Nobody can imagine what destroying your family, paying out 100 million dollars, having to schedule time with the kids instead of enjoying them at his leisure and the emotional reality that you were the king of the world and you and only you destroyed it all including the dreams of his father (not to steal a book title).
Tiger will be back, great champions just have a way of doing that, it just won't be this year.
My opinions is completely free and worth the price

 

[aaron_lohan]

You think Phil has a poor swing?

Yeah I think its a bit loose and his leg action leaves a lot to be desired, compared to others in his generation like Ernie Els, Padraig Harrington, Sergio and the new breed of young tour pros.

 

[aaron_lohan]

I'm pretty sure "lack of work ethic" isn't anywhere close to how he's known.

Looking at his long game his swing hasn't changed an awful lot despite him claiming to have put a lot of work in with a variety of instructors.

 

[bax1865]

I think the setback that Tiger has experienced is deeper than anyone can imagine. The death of his father, although a great loss, inspired him to work harder. The loss of his soul has destroyed his desire to compete for now. Psychologically he is lost, physically (golf swing) he is lost as well as a loss of self respect. There isn't a "golf guru" anywhere that can fix his emotional state. The man is depressed, embarassed and ashamed. All of a sudden he has realized that life is more than just about golf and himself. I think we all deep down wish him well as a person and would love to see his incredible talent to do the impossible come back again.

 

[mgranato]

Apparently Phil has been thinking about bigger things than the #1 spot. Good to hear he's thinks things are sorted.

 

[ZAP]

Apparently Phil has been thinking about bigger things than the #1 spot. Good to hear he's thinks things are sorted.

Yeah I actually had to google what the hell that condition was. I just hope it does not mean he is going to hang them up soon.

 

[gmbtempe]

Isn't it kinda instructive that with the relatively easy chance at being #1 in the world, Philly Mick put up a 78?

BTW, do you think Tiger tanked this tourney about halfway through?

I do.

Phil certainly has played poorly since the US Open, whats his problem?

 

[dbl]

GMB, not sure if you heard. Lookup up Phil and arthritis. He had to go to Mayo Clinic to confirm and get on meds etc. Just a guess that this has impacted him some, since Pebble Beach. He talked about it at PGA this week.

 

[birdie_man]

There is absolutely no question that Harmon has helped Phil, so has Pelz, and so has Stockton.

Saying that Tiger will be “back” (whatever back is) is a 50/50 guess. Will he win again, almost certainly. Will he win another major, probably. Will he catch Jack, maybe. Will he dominate, doubtful.

The most dominant athlete I’ve ever seen was Mike Tyson. He never regained his mojo despite many experts predicting he would.
“He just needs to get back in the ring (golf course) and starting fighting (playing) again.”
“He’s messed up from his divorce, once that’s over he’ll be back.”
“He’s not been the same since Guss (Earl) died.”
“He needs to dump Don King (Hank Haney).”

Any of this sound familiar? I wonder if the Korean translation for Buster Douglas is Y.E. Yang?

Maybe Tiger wins the next 5 majors, or maybe he’s entering the wilderness – I don’t think any predictions are too bold at the moment.

You should be On The Air, mg.

 

[mgranato]

but I have the face for golf forums