d-plane/clubface clarificaton, please

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cnadon

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I'm confused on where the clubface should aim when using the d-plane rules. Brian mentions in his d-plane video, somewhere around the 20:00 mark, that to hit a fade the face needs to be closed and for a draw it needs to be open (in some circumstances.).

When I set up with my body and feet left of the target and try to hit the ball straight at the target, I swing down a plane line in line with my feet. But I'm finding my ball starts on the target line and then goes to the right of it. Is this from having the clubface too open? Should it be square to the plane line (which would make it closed to the target line), or square to the target line (which would make it open to the plane line), or should it be a bit closed even to the plane line (which would make it quite closed to the target line) ?

I should also add that I'm a recoving underplaner who used to hit a severely inside-out open face draw.

Thanks.
 
natep

natep

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When you aim left to hit a straight ball to the target, the clubface needs to be square to the arc.
 
duckjr78

duckjr78

New
There are two ways to hit a straight ball dead at the target. Both involve the clubface being exactly at the target (0°) at impact. The first way is to aim at the target with the clubface and swing left enough to counteract the down (also out) movement of your club. The amount you have to swing left is dependent on the vertical swing plane and angle of attack.

The second way is to aim your body left enough so that the plane line is adjusted to be straight at the target at impact instead of low point. Again, this is dependent on VSP and AoA.

These two options are essentially the same thing, just personnal preference as to which is easier to you, I would imagine.

There is a thread on here that gives specific numbers for your AoA and VSP to correlate how far left you should swing/aim. I've found that for a straight ball off the turf, I have to aim what feels like 5 yards left of my final target. What I have to remember when adjusting with aim is that I must commit to feeling like I am swinging at my "5 yds left" target. If I just aim left and then swing towards my final target, I miss every green long and left.
 
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savydan

New
natep said:
When you aim left to hit a straight ball to the target, the clubface needs to be square to the arc.
Click to expand...

Face needs to be square to the target which is open to the plane line.

Therefore the true or resultant path is square to the target as well as the face.

You need True Path and Face going to the target to hit the ball to the target with no curve. Intuition is correct in this case.
 
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cnadon

New
square to what

Quigss said:
Here is a basic synopsis on the TrackMan website on how to hit the ball straight with irons and with the driver. It has some great info on AoA and swing path without being overly detailed

TrackMan - Teaching ? Josh Zander
Click to expand...

Thanks for the link. But when Zander says hitting it with a square clubface, does he mean square to the target line or square to the (rotated left for an iron) plane line?
 
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dbl

New
I didn't watch the whole 7 min Zander video, but he says hit left (path) with iron and right for diver...and face is square. So I'd say he means square to the actual target.

SavyDan has it right.
 
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Quigss

New
My understanding is square to the target line. For an iron my understanding is that the ball would not curve right because the downward AoA is offset by the slightly left path - zeroing out. However, with the clubface square to the target line, if the path becomes too far to the left for the amount of downward AoA, then the ball will curve to the right. This results in the ball starting at the target and curving right. Maybe someone else can confirm this, as this is new to me also within the last few months.
 
natep

natep

New
If the clubface isnt square to the arc (path), you'll never hit a straight ball, no matter where you aim or how much up/down you hit the ball.
 
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Quigss

New
So, if the plane line is slightly left, the face will be square to the target and also square to the arc at impact. Just after impact/separation, the clubhead continues down/out to find low point on the plane line, but it is now closed to the target line. Yes?
 
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dbl

New
Natep, perhaps you would define arc.

For an iron shot:
A view from over head: (treat the dots as spaces for forum to display)

.....target

path
\
.\
..\
...\
.....--face

My understanding is face needs to be be square to target and path to the left. Resultant (or "net") path is straight at target.
 
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natep

natep

New
Sorry , I'm not sure I'm quite understanding the diagram.

Let me try to explain it like this:



If you drew a curved line from an overhead view that represented the path/arc through the impact area, then the clubface needs to be perpendicular to this line at all points (to hit a straight shot, hittting up or down on it).

Sort of like how the hands of a clock are always perpendicular to the outside edge of the clock, except the swing arc is elliptical shaped and not perfectly round.

(Sorry, I tried to make a diagram but it's not coming out right)
 
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dbl

New
Well I don't agree with that. For one thing if a golfer was using full roll of arms then the face is open before impact and closed after.

As to the arc I can understand the view from overhead -like b doyle's famous mats. But for an iron shot the mat is angled to the left.
 
natep

natep

New
I was just trying to explain what I meant by square to the arc.

I agree that the face is not square to the arc throughout the entire swing.

But it has to be at impact if you want to hit it straight.
 
duckjr78

duckjr78

New
dbl said:
Natep, perhaps you would define arc.

For an iron shot:
A view from over head: (treat the dots as spaces for forum to display)

.....target

path
\
.\
..\
...\
.....--face

My understanding is face needs to be be square to target and path to the left. Resultant (or "net") path is straight at target.
Click to expand...


You are getting there, but the diagram you have is in 2D. Your drawing shows the plane line. The "true path" which includes the down (and therefore out) would be dead at the target, as would the face.
 
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chipingguru

New
The target line and plane line only intersect for the briefest of moments at impact. If you have a square face at that moment you get a straight shot. The toe then turns over very quickly and off to the left of the target line does the club go. Anybody any good where that does not happen?

Hand action (rotation) controls club face, club head contolled by the wrist action(cocking and uncocking), plane controls the shaft. Whether your straight shot goes like a pro-or weak ass hacker depending on many more factors than path and face.
 
J

Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Guru, It sounds like you are saying hinge action can influence a shot during the impact interval. That has been proven as false, however the intent to do that before impact may influence ball flight a bit more
 
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