Do you know why I like Dustin Johnson's Swing?

[Brian Manzella]

It ain't stack & tilt.

It ain't morad.

It ain't book literalist/tripod.

It is FAR from one plane.

It is not backed up hips+cover it+80% of the weight on the left foot.

It is not haney-fied.

It is not full of Lead.


So, ain't it funny?

I have gotten in 10,987 arguments on this site with folks who are bholden to the above methodologies.

And they MAKE FUN OF ME.

They HATE upright swings, HATE bowed wrists, HATE active pivots.

All I ever say is this:

ALL THOSE METHODS LISTED ABOVE CAN AND DO WORK FOR MANY GOLFERS!!

But so can what I teach, and so can this Dustin Johnson swing.

I'd like to see this guy take over golf and leave all those folks in the lurch.

The beauty of what Jimmy Ballard and Homer Kelley said was ALL KINDS OF SWINGS CAN WORK if they get certain things down.

All those methods put folks in a box.

Brian don't like being in a box.


....and BTW, kudos for Butchie leaving plenty of it alone.

 

[lia41985]

“I would never change his position at the top from the shut position because that is how he plays,” Harmon said. “We just want to do some things in his swing that will make him more consistent. We’re working on a little more variety of shots and working the ball more. He draws the ball mainly and he struggles fading it. We were working [Tuesday] on fading the ball to get to right pins.”

Dustin Johnson and Butch Harmon and Players Championship - Shag Bag Golf Blog | Golf Channel

 

[jeffgladchun]

Dustin will be hard to catch today, even with Tiger breathing down his neck.

 

[TaylorMadeAP25]

For the record Dustin has worked with Mike and Andy in the past when he got his first win he was working with them.Love his swing, guy just mashes it! and he has great touch around the greens

 

[Brian Manzella]

For the record Dustin has worked with Mike and Andy in the past when he got his first win he was working with them.Love his swing, guy just mashes it! and he has great touch around the greens

For the record, I didn't mention those guys, I mentioned the PATTERN.

Anyhoo, everyone of those methods will either claim him, or pan him.

 

[TaylorMadeAP25]

gotcha, I wouldnt really say anyone will claim Dustin to fit any sort of pattern of a method, because I dont think any teacher would change the way he hits it to fit a method, other then probably Haney. I think that if they were a good teacher they would use a system to measure his swing and just give him the info on what his swing should and will produce in a shot shape and also give pieces that he CAN improve to help his game. love his golf swing its going to be fun watching him blow it past everyone by 50yds again today!

 

[Richie3Jack]

Dustin and I are fellow Coastal Carolina University alums. I golfed with him once, when he was about 16 or so, I was 24 years old or so. He was super long there. He's a genuine person and if you lived in Myrtle Beach long enough, you would understand his laid back personality. His only missing piece is his iron game is pretty much average. He isn't hitting every fairway, but he hits it very STRAIGHT. Those fairways tend to bottleneck when you hit it 350 yards. That's what I think he went to Butch for, to hit the irons better. He also worked with Bennett and Plummer on that as well, but apparently he decided to go with Butch.

This is a good guy and the sky is the limit. I think the only thing stopping him is if he can truly believe how great of a golfer he can be. Not that I blame him, that's easier said than done.






3JACK

 

[siksta]

Tremendous power but lets face it the swing cracked under pressure it started from the very 1st swing which was a thin fan. At his age he's got all the time in the world to fix it Tiger did it you want a swing that can withstand pressure the you become a great player. Bowed wrist you bet 90% of the people on this forum could not play with that move so now what time the bottom of the swing?try not to flatten the downswing as much?Something major will have to change unless he plays wide open courses Daly won that way and now well a train wreck.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Tremendous power but lets face it the swing cracked under pressure it started from the very 1st swing which was a thin fan. At his age he's got all the time in the world to fix it Tiger did it you want a swing that can withstand pressure the you become a great player. Bowed wrist you bet 90% of the people on this forum could not play with that move so now what time the bottom of the swing?try not to flatten the downswing as much?Something major will have to change unless he plays wide open courses Daly won that way and now well a train wreck.

So what you are saying is that you can't win majors with an arched left wrist?

Really?

Does it matter to you WHEN it arches???

 

[jonnygrouville]

I would be very interested to hear more!

I have always had my left wrist slightly bowed at the top and my college coach spent a long time trying to 'fix' it.

Some people say slightly cupped left wrist, some people say flat, some people say open at the top. Not many people say an arched wrist is okay!

Only a couple of months ago in an on-going swing discussion over e-mails with Grouville senior did he raise exactly that point looking at some photos of Trevino - his backswing looks kind of like he is setting his impact wrist alignment already. We may be way off the mark, but is that such a bad thing?

And McDowell made it look easy over the weekend with his bowing action...

 

[Richie3Jack]

DJ needed a 76 to win that tournament. But, let's presume McDowell plays the 18th more agressively, then he needs a 75 or maybe a 74 to win.

I think things just 'got out of hand' for him mentally on Sunday and he couldn't recover. I have no idea what the exact story was, but it *appeared to me* that Butch started paying more attention to him as he was getting into contention. Harmon probably didn't try to change anything with his swing, but from my experience being in contention of big tournaments (big tourneys for me, that is) sometimes if everybody around you talks about how big of a moment it is, then you start to feel the pressure of the situation. And if you had stuck with the mental approach that got you there in the first place, you would win the tournament.






3JACK

 

[dominicscaife]

So what you are saying is that you can't win majors with an arched left wrist?

Really?

Does it matter to you WHEN it arches???

This is incredibly interesting to me.

I used to have a very bowed left wrist, a sky facing, closed face at the top like Dustin and a very "body based" pivot

I could break 80 but hadn't been anywhere closed to scratch.

In my first ever lesson, I told the Pro I didn't really care about my score as long as I could hit the ball farther.. and have some fun with Par 5's.

The Pro told me I had to fix the bowed left wrist if I was to be able to hit the ball a long way.

I see now that was total codswallup... but after fixing the bowed left wrist I did get better and have shot par a couple of times round decent tracks.

But I still wonder if any Pro's have been consistently successful with this bowed left wrist look.

Ironically, I had always thought that very guy who won the US Open yesterday; Graeme McDowell had this very same flaw, but he seems to have managed it quite well. In his older swings (such as the thread showing him with the Trackman guru) it definately seems more pronounced than in his current swing.

[media]http://dominicscaife.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/mcdowell2007-bowed.jpg[/media]

He certainly still has the bowed left wrist coming down, I wonder if he's been advised to 'fix it'

I would love to hear Brian's more detailed thoughts on the validity of the bowed left wrist.

 

[greenfree]

So what you are saying is that you can't win majors with an arched left wrist?

Really?

Does it matter to you WHEN it arches???

Doesn't Tom Lehman have a bowed wrist? He won a major. Almost forgot,Trevino.

 

[Lindsey Newman]

So what you are saying is that you can't win majors with an arched left wrist?

Really?

Does it matter to you WHEN it arches???

Exactly! if he had a cupped wrist with a shut face it would be an issue, but a bowed left wrist with a matching face angle is just a precursor to impact.
He can hit long, high or low, left to right and right to left. HE IS ON TOUR with some wins. Give me his wrist postion at the top and his wallet any day of the freak'n week.

 

[siksta]

So what you are saying is that you can't win majors with an arched left wrist?

Really?

Does it matter to you WHEN it arches???


No for the record not saying you cant win a major with a bowed wrist!!!!!!!!

Ray Floyd i believe comes to mind. Lets face it Johnny Miller pointed ot its very extreme its the other parts that cracked . Backswings dont mean much at that level 156 players in the US Open 156 diff backswings,loops , reverse loops , inside outside takeaways, That downswing is what Harmon will work on

 

[mjstrong]

I think a bigger "flaw" than the bowed left wrist (which is 10x better for an average golfer than a cupped one, IMHO) in his swing is his sequencing. I'm sure that it's a big reason for his stupid length, but it seems like his arms and upper body are WAY more behind his legs/hips than most other, more consistent strikers. Just my initial thoughts on his swing.

I'd like to echo Brian's sentiment that it's great to see a guy with a swing that doesn't really fit into a particular method's pattern do well on the big stage (I think his swing had little to do with his Sunday meltdown). I think Dustin will be playing some pretty good tournament golf for a while.

 

[earthshine2k]

I wouldn't say that Johnson's bowed wrist at the top was the ONLY reason he collapsed, but it sure didn't help. He'd have succumbed to the nerves regardless of his swing pattern, though. I recall Tom Lehman playing in the final group of the US Open 3 or 4 consecutive years and not being able to close the deal. Pretty bowed left wrist at the top for Tom. To win majors, I believe you have to be able to consistently hit long, towering fades. Not saying that a 'going hook' can't work, but the high fade was Nicklaus' bread and butter and it used to be Tiger's. Now, he's laid off at the top with the blade wide open, and he can only work the ball right to left with any consistency. Nice flip he's developed. Lehman couldn't hit a cut at Congressional when he needed to; that left wrist position just doesn't facilitate that ball flight. But, you CAN win a Major with a bowed left wrist. Just keep your poise and make some putts.

 

[conkanen]

I think a bigger "flaw" than the bowed left wrist (which is 10x better for an average golfer than a cupped one, IMHO) in his swing is his sequencing. I'm sure that it's a big reason for his stupid length, but it seems like his arms and upper body are WAY more behind his legs/hips than most other, more consistent strikers. Just my initial thoughts on his swing.

I'd like to echo Brian's sentiment that it's great to see a guy with a swing that doesn't really fit into a particular method's pattern do well on the big stage (I think his swing had little to do with his Sunday meltdown). I think Dustin will be playing some pretty good tournament golf for a while.

Just got back from the range and in the spirit of this discussion I tried the "bowed wrist" or "twistaway" and mashed it. Not sure which one I was doing or if they are the same thing but I was killing it. I was struggling with my contact so I was searching for something. Never thought I "needed" it but I guess I do for now. *shrug* I am such a tinkerer. UGH

 

[jonnygrouville]

So it does seem that Brian prefers a bowing wrist or more 'closed' face for the handicap golfer.

I'll have to watch NHA again, but I don't remember it providing a 'fix' for a bowed wrist... so can you never hook again with a bowed wrist? It would seem that with the right amount of carry, etc. that would be a possibility, but would love to hear a more informed opinion.

Is there a risk of the hang-back and flip move? I know I bow a little and struggle with the odd left and hit it very high. I suppose that is what Confessions Of A Former Flipper is for.

Lehman definitely bowed and drove his legs hard. Trevino, yes, Azinger by default as part of his grip. Seems that me that it places even more importance on a strong pivot to stop the ball going left and not flipping to add loft to the clubface.

So bowed wrist + COFF + NHA = workable?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Whoa Nellie!!

So it does seem that Brian prefers a bowing wrist or more 'closed' face for the handicap golfer.

No, I prefer a neutral shaft rotation and less flying wedge rotation, but I wiull use ANY combination.

I'll have to watch NHA again, but I don't remember it providing a 'fix' for a bowed wrist... so can you never hook again with a bowed wrist? It would seem that with the right amount of carry, etc. that would be a possibility, but would love to hear a more informed opinion.

Yes you can.

David's left worst gets arched (the proper term) on the downswing, and mine does too.

Is there a risk of the hang-back and flip move?

Geez!

Everyone hits hook for the same reason, a path way right of the face.

I know I bow a little and struggle with the odd left and hit it very high. I suppose that is what Confessions Of A Former Flipper is for.

Flipper is just to learn not to flip.

But there is a Flipper pattern in the book and the new video.

Lehman definitely bowed and drove his legs hard. Trevino, yes, Azinger by default as part of his grip. Seems that me that it places even more importance on a strong pivot to stop the ball going left and not flipping to add loft to the clubface.

Think about this threesome....

Pretty good Major winners, no?

So bowed wrist + COFF + NHA = workable?

Yup.