I find it hard to believe that you would be happy to see Hagen scramble his way to the same par figures as Hogan. Do you think Hagen is more admirable, or acceptable, or in tune with your unilaterally-declared "spirit of the game" than the modern wild-hitting whackers that you so deplore?
Besides, by your own reasoning, what's wrong then with how Bubba made his par to win? He hit a great shot to the green to secure his par. You're going to get hung up on the fact that he hit a wedge - but the facts that he was within 150 yards of the green, and that he could get home with a wedge from there, are the payoffs for his clubhead speed. You're not going to claim that more than a handful of players could have hit that same shot, are you?
Lastly, you talk about "traditional golfing values" and you talk about your home course. What's the connection? Have you played traditional links golf in Britain? If you're thinking that it's all set up like Carnoustie in 1999, then you're very mistaken.
First of all, do not change the subject. First, you should admit your illogical claims concerning OB that you obviously aimed at ridiculing me and ended with ridiculing yourself.
Next, answering your points in detail:
- it could happen literally very often that Hogan would lose all he gained tee-to-green to Hagen on greens; they could likely achieve similar results but only because Hogan cannot putt; and it is very fair. Hagen saving a lot of pars with his great scrambling or recovery shots, Hogan losing lots of birdies because of his lousy putting skills.
- however, Hagen was not privileged to have birdie chances and win Hogan despite very mediocre GiR because he needed to sacrifice one stroke to go out of deep shit.
- I never said my home course is traditional one -- do not put things into my mouth ! I said my home course is penal and brutal not likely to today's pampered courses; with a due proportions it can remind some old US Open very tough setups which I always take as an example when talking about ballstriking level;
- I never ever said that I think that setup like Carnoustie in 1999 is universal; I do not remember I have ever used The Open examples at all (although some of them could be a good ones to illustrate my way of thinking); again, think before you say something because either you claim illogical things or try to speak for me so that you can create your "clever" answers ROFL;
- no, I have never played traditional links in England or Scotland.
Dariusz, what is your home course? I want to google earth it and see how wide the fairways are compared to other courses.
Thanks
Golf Palace, Wola Bledowa (near Lodz) -- google earth here:
golf palace - Mapy Google
You can see (from left to right): fairway and green of the 8th hole (the widest fairway on the course), 9th short par 3 hole over a small lake with huge beech between water and green, very wide driving range, fairway of the 1oth hole, clubhouse (letter B) and the second part of a very tough 18th hole with its green near the clubhouse.
Move North and you'll be able to see the rest of holes and even calculate what you want. The rough is very brutal (the satellite pics were being taken probably when they moved it down a bit, otherwise will be more visible I guess) and the place in the woods even more. Greens are very small, not receiving, and tough to putt.
Ahhh... but is it perception or reality?
Let's take two fictional professional golfers, we'll call one BH and the other BW.
BH swings 110 mph with a path of X degrees and a face of Y degrees. Those path/face numbers allow him to land the ball in the middle of the fairway and see it roll out just to the right side edge of the fairway (BH like to play a fade). BH is legendary, considered the best driver and never misses a fairway. Never.
BW swings 124 mph with the exact same path and face angles of BH. Unfortunately for BW, those numbers have him landing the ball on the right side of the fairway and rolling out into the right rough. Despite having the exact same skill for controlling his clubhead that BH, BW never hits a fairway and is considered to be a horrible driver, the worst.
Bother players have identical levels of skill for controlling the club, but one has a higher level of skill in how fast he swings the club. Despite being equal to and better , BW is perceived as being a worse driver of the ball. Or conversely, despite being equal to and worse, BH is perceived as being the best driver of the ball.
This entire perception is not based on the players actual ability to control their path/face (the true gauge of a players skill), it’s instead based on where the ball comes to rest relative to the arbitrary height of a lawn mower. If BW wants to change how people falsely perceive his better set of skills, he has two options. He can either hope to produce better path/face numbers than BH just to be considered equal, or he can lesson his skill for speed to the lower level of BH just to be considered equal. Either way, perception would not reflect the reality.
It should be noted that both BH and BW are successful players (major winners) despite their perceived driving prowess.
Good but again a misguided example. First, I never said that missing the fairway by a few yards should be punished; moreover, I agree to you that fairways should be projected the way they give equal chances for less SS players and high SS players -- namely, they should be proportionally wider the closer to green; I want to punish errant shots -- do you have an idea what errant means ?
Secondly, as I said many times before -- I have nothing agaist length itself; it should be a virtue or skill; I want to punish errant length so that the chances are fair; why wouldn't you take an example of two players of the same SS -- player A. knowing his ballstriking is not like BH, uses his #3 wood or hybrid and hits the fairway; player B. risking hits with his driver and luckily finds the fairway and gains FAIR ADVANTAGE; but when he risks and his shot goes far away from the fairway -- what's the point of letting him reach the green easier than player A. ???
What kind of friggin sport can tolerate such bullshit ??? Ahhh, c'mon.
Cheers
