Archie Swivel
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What is the law of the flail? Also what is a flail?
Law of the Flail
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Burner
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Pictures of a Flail
Your arms are one part of a flail, the club is the other whilst your wrists are the moveable connection between the two parts.
Your arms are one part of a flail, the club is the other whilst your wrists are the moveable connection between the two parts.
Archie Swivel
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Is the 'law of the flail' a well-known law of physics or the brainchild of Homer? Is there a mathematical history behind the concept?
Erik_K
New
Perhaps one of the earliest 'dealings' with the Flail is David vs Goliath. David used a 'flail' to sling a rock and kill Goliath (or so the story goes).
The flail can also be likened to numchucks. Every Halloween when your kids, or neighbor's kids dress up Ninjas, some of them might be sporting some plastic (I hope) numchucks to accompany their plastic (I hope) throwing stars.
Ninjas are cool...couldn't resist.
Burner
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David used a Sling in order to propel the stone and slay Goliath, so the story goes.
There is no "law of the flail" but as far as G.O.L.F goes the unwritten "law" is that the swingle always follows the handle into and through the impact zone.
The left arm is the handle, the left wrist is the hinge pin and the clubshaft is the swingle.
There is no "law of the flail" but as far as G.O.L.F goes the unwritten "law" is that the swingle always follows the handle into and through the impact zone.
The left arm is the handle, the left wrist is the hinge pin and the clubshaft is the swingle.
Archie Swivel
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So the flail would not maintain its start down angle through impact, but would be seeking its 'in line' condition, right. So in golf you would not want to flip before impact, I see that. But the swingle would overtake the handle at some point.
Wouldn't the frozen bent right wrist inhibit the seeking out of the in line condition? Sometimes in my effort not to flip and maintain a frozen bent right wrist I feel that I am overriding CF. Make sense?
Wouldn't the frozen bent right wrist inhibit the seeking out of the in line condition? Sometimes in my effort not to flip and maintain a frozen bent right wrist I feel that I am overriding CF. Make sense?
Brian Manzella
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Hopefully THIS link won't cause all of the problems the last one did.
"The Law of the Flail" is defined by HK to encompass three phases of the flail - The "Centrifugal Acceleration" phase when the swingle is seeking the in-line condition, the "Centrifugal Momentum" phase when the swingle is in-line with the handle, and the "Centrifugal Deceleration" phase in which the swingle backs up after passing the in-line condition. Those three phases are, in fact, scientific laws.
HK's major contribution to golf, was to point out that phase three shouldn't happen with the "golf" swingle until past ball separation - "The Flat Left Wrist".
HK's major contribution to golf, was to point out that phase three shouldn't happen with the "golf" swingle until past ball separation - "The Flat Left Wrist".
mandrin
New
MizunoJoe, I like to point out that during the very first phase in the downswing the golfclub is striving to jack-knife back onto the arms. This is evident from the bending (loading) of the shaft. Just the opposite of Homer’s idea of seeking the in-line condition. Only a bit over 0.1 sec further into the downswing is the centrifugal force getting large enough to dominate the other forces and starting to open up the lead arm/club angle.
I have defined three phases in the downswing in the thread " TGM power accumulators - science or metaphor? " in a linked article, based on scientific principles, but would appreciate it if you could furnish any reference to a scientific article/book where Kelley’s ‘three phases’ are mentioned as ‘scientific laws’. []
Only a bit over 0.1 sec further into the downswing is the centrifugal force getting large enough to dominate the other forces and starting to open up the lead arm/club angle.I have defined three phases in the downswing in the thread " TGM power accumulators - science or metaphor? " in a linked article, based on scientific principles, but would appreciate it if you could furnish any reference to a scientific article/book where Kelley’s ‘three phases’ are mentioned as ‘scientific laws’. [
]In a good CF pattern, the very first phase of the DS is the pivot, which creates, sustains, or adds to, the loaded Accums. At release point is where the shaft should start seeking the in-line condition(phase one). And even in your Throwaway/bent left wrist golf models without the "golfer's flail", the in-line seeking laws are obeyed. But what is this reference to a "loaded" shaft - only a short time ago you said the shaft didn't get loaded and were setting out to "prove" it.
Perhaps you have done an experiment with a flail in which one or more of the three phases didn't occur? Or cite a scientific article/book which provides empirical evidence that they don't always happen?
Perhaps you have done an experiment with a flail in which one or more of the three phases didn't occur? Or cite a scientific article/book which provides empirical evidence that they don't always happen?
Archie Swivel
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So does a bent right wrist seek an "in line" condition at impact? And, if so, why do we use our forearm and hand muscles to disturb that by maintaining a frozen right wrist bend?
In a CF Swing, as soon as the right wrist bend is no longer perpendicular to the plane of clubhead motion, the force of the clubhead will try to flatten the right wrist, which throws the clubhead off plane and kills separation velo. The best way to keep the left wrist flat is to keep it moving fast enough, rather than freezing the right wrist.
mandrin
New
MizunoJoe, reading your posts is an intriguing and fascinating experience. It feels like a robot at work, having some artificial intelligence, with the contents of TGM stored in his memory banks. Bits and pieces, directly out of the book, are continuously used as arguments. However, it all feels a little awkward, quite similar to the results when using multilingual translation software. [
]I used the word ‘loading’ strictly with the noble intention not to make it too difficult for you to grasp, tying into your believe system. As for the concept of ‘loading’ the shaft to be unleashed at impact, that is behind us, but still probably part of the TGM culture, with their devotees, looking backwards, for ever citing their little yellow book.
- Still looking for references for these three scientific LAWS ?
Archie Swivel
New
Mandrin,
Isn't 'loading' simply the bend in the shaft and the cocking of the left wrist created by a change in direction at the top of the backswing and isn't the point to not let the bent shaft and cocked left wrist 'spring back' until impact?
Also, what did you think about my question of whether the bent right wrist seeks an 'in line' condition at the ball?
Isn't 'loading' simply the bend in the shaft and the cocking of the left wrist created by a change in direction at the top of the backswing and isn't the point to not let the bent shaft and cocked left wrist 'spring back' until impact?
Also, what did you think about my question of whether the bent right wrist seeks an 'in line' condition at the ball?
quote:Originally posted by mandrin
As for the concept of ‘loading’ the shaft to be unleashed at impact, that is behind us, but still probably part of the TGM culture, with their devotees, looking backwards
- Still looking for references for these three scientific LAWS ?
Yes, it is behind us in forum archives, where fenring exposed your plagiarism in which you incorrectly copied some of the constants in the equations, which rendered the results suspect. [:I]
However, rather than dwell on that, why not submit your original research on the myth of shaft loading to a recognized organization, such as 'Proceedings of the World Scientific Congress of Golf' for review and publication? Then you could merely cite the article on this forum. [
]As for HK's "The Law of the Flail", perhaps you could cite a published scientific empirical study in which one or more of the three phases failed.
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