For all those that share Brian's "50 lb. goal" in 2008

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I hope Brian doesn't mind this post as it is not golf-related, but I know it does relate to many golfers here.

The reason I am here is my interest in golf and my appreciation of the knowledge here and the sense that the knowledge here is factually grounded in careful observation (by some very smart people, like Brian) and is in a real sense science-based and is not part of some faith-based one size fits all method being promoted by a guru looking for blind followers. The difference between learning the importance of a flat left wrist and learning about this week's Golf Digest tips is the difference between having a tool that will allow you to learn and improve versus having incomplete information that is just as likely to be bad as good for your long-term golf results. I played golf on and off for thirty years without ever learning the importance of a flat left wrist, which is amazing given how much I read and studied golf.

Brian mentioned in his recent post his 2008 goal included "losing 50 pounds." If you walk around a driving range or golf course in the U.S., you may wonder which is a bigger problem - flipping or obesity. As of September in 2007, I needed to lose more than weight than Brian's "50."

And I got very lucky. A good friend started talking to me about reading a book by Gary Taubes - Good Calories, Bad Calories - and my friend mentioned that he would be interested in my opinion on the book because the information presented was so contrary to much of what he believed about nutrition and health. This book by Taubes is not a diet book but is instead a science survey book written by a science writer, and it is about the conclusions Taubes reached after interviewing researchers and reading the medical research literature related to obesity.

In short, it is possible that after reading this book that you may conclude that the conventional "scientific" wisdom about the causes of coronary heart disease, diabetes, and obesity is as useful as this month's Golf Digest tips. Actually, it may be worse, believing in this particular brand of shoddy "science" may shorten your life significantly.

Good Calories, Bad Calories is a tough read - not as hard as The Yellow Book, but not easy. It took me three weeks of close, careful reading (in and amongst having a life to live). I think it is important to be informed and form your own conclusions about the matters discussed in the book. It is quite possible that after reading this book you will conclude that the actual level scientific care that went into establishing some of the major premises of current thinking in public health - that fat causes people to be fat and have coronary heart disease, that all calories are equal, that to lose weight all it takes is a slight reduction in calories and increased exercise are all very wrong. You may even conclude that the probable cause of the obesity epidemic in the United States is not some sudden loss of collective willpower over the last thirty years (which seems an absurd idea when you think about it), but is instead a direct result of current dietary "religion" presented, wrongly, as science.

It is very possible that you will conclude from reading the book that reducing calories without reducing, in a very significant fashion, carbohydrates will never never lead to significant weight loss. There are large studies that have been done that show that your chance of losing 40 lbs in a year from a typical semi-starvation calorie reduction diet are roughly the chance of going from a 10 handicap to winning your club championship in that same year.

Taubes does not tell you how to lose your 40-50 lbs. But you can infer from what you read that a Zone or Atkins approach may help you lose weight and avoid obesity, diabetes, and coronary heart disease. Many in the medical establishment (I am married to a doctor, and know many doctors and some medical researchers, so believe me I know) have dismissed those approaches as "unhealthy." You may conclude that the shoddy "science" of nutritional science and the availability of many high carbohydrate foods caused the obesity epidemic, that orange juice may be more harmful to your health than meat, and that bad nutritional information - not a lack of willpower - has been causing your weight gain.

But I think the important thing is that if your former approaches to health issues like weight loss have not worked that you consider whether the information you have is good or not and examine the science underlying your beliefs to see if you can improve. Reading Taubes is like learning about a flat left wrist. Reading the latest diet blurb on CNN online without science-based context is like relying on Golf Digest tips.

I apologize if what I have written sounds strident, but I think it is important. My dad was obese his entire adult life and once he faced significant health problems in his 60's, he decided to try something "extreme" and dramatically reduced his carbohydrate intake, contrary to his doctor's advice. It was in some sense too late in that he is now diabetic, but in another sense it was not too late as he lost 50 lbs. and he is in better health at 75 than he was at 65. I don't think he would be alive today if he had not made those "radical" changes.

I don't view myself as being on a diet, but as having totally changed my diet to eliminate most carbohydrates. So far in three months I have lost three inches off my waist. I feel tremendously better than I have in years. I was hungry dieting before; reducing my carbohydrate intake significantly has eliminated the hunger I felt constantly.

So if you are willing to spend tens or hundreds of hours trying to become a better golfer (and read somethign as difficult as Homer Kelley), at leas consider reading Good Calories, Bad Calories as a starting point to fixing your health issues. You may conclude that the science is not convincing, but at least you will be using some sort of scientific framework as a starting point, rather than magical thinking, to begin trying to fix that "50 lbs. issue." I hate to sound like a heretic, but being alive for an extra decade or two is more important than your handicap. Science trumps magical thinking in understanding most aspects of the world.

Best to everyone in 2008!
 
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When I read about Brian's quest to lost 50 this year....

I thought it would be good, for those of use that have similar aspirations, to start a thread to encourage each other and share what is working....as well as maybe some favorite recipes, etc...

How about making this thread a sticky and using it for such?

Personally, I have never had to lose weight as most of my adult life, I was maybe 5 lbs overweight. However, the last 5 years, I have gotten to be about 25lbs too heavy and have been a bit lethargic about getting it off. I used to be able to run, which was easy to keep it off. But an injury that caused me to quit motorcross and turn to golf has squashed that activity.

Yet, I am serious in trying to do everything I can to improve my golf game this year....and prolong my stay on this planet. So, 25 lbs need to disappear!

I've always been pretty health conscious and really never agreed with manners of eating that excluded food groups like carbs. I think carbs are not only good for you but necessary. I plan on eliminating carbs with a high glycemic index but not carbs all together. Also, I think fats are very important in maintaining or losing weight. There is a great book out there call "Fats that Heal, Fats that Kill". It is kind of a dry read as well but...talks about good fats that actually help the body eliminate, by breaking down, certain types of accumulated body fats.

So, I'm interested hearing about others methods and gaining some motivations for myself by their successes.
 
Well, it's not my intent to create a long-running thread about recipes or weight loss or weight gain. This board doesn't seem like the place like do that to me.

The reality is that the issue is incredibly complex and, not surprisingly, I doubt there's a one-size-fits-all approach best for every person. What I wanted to get across is that there is a scientific place to start to figure this out - for people really motivated to actually lose 50 lbs. For people who are medical professionals or willing to wade through abstracts, the studies referred to in Taubes book are a good place to begin to get educated. Most people don't have time or ability to read that, but some will.

As a general approach the "good carbs over bad carbs, everything in moderation, modern USDA food pyramid" approach might work fine for people at their ideal body weights, but for people who are obese, I think the short-term approach that is needed is a Never-Hook Again or Never Slice Again -like appraoch that allows you to lose body fat a consistent basis in a relative quick fashion.

I would prefer just to refer people to the science and let them make up their own minds. My point is that the current actual science about how to avoid being or remaining obese, getting diabetes, or coronary heart disease is probably much different than people have been led to believe, and you may have to dig if what you want is actual results. For those that can, become informed so you can better control your own results.
 
Humans generally are not suited to eating carbs, they cause insulin levels to rise and insulin shuttles fats and carbs into fat cells. However just telling everyone to lower carbs doesn't make everyone lose weight, the future for diets lies in metabolic typing for me, it involves eating the correct foods for your body type, metabolism and your bodies ability to process different macro-nutrients (carbs proteins fats). Asian people tend to be better at metabolising carbs than westerners so they can eat diets high in carbs (as they typically do) and still not become obese.
 
See...a thread on this topic..could be of great value to golfers here...

Humans generally are not suited to eating carbs, they cause insulin levels to rise and insulin shuttles fats and carbs into fat cells. However just telling everyone to lower carbs doesn't make everyone lose weight, the future for diets lies in metabolic typing for me, it involves eating the correct foods for your body type, metabolism and your bodies ability to process different macro-nutrients (carbs proteins fats). Asian people tend to be better at metabolising carbs than westerners so they can eat diets high in carbs (as they typically do) and still not become obese.

Aaron, this is exactly why I plan on starting with the elimination of carbs that are HIGH on the glycemic index vs. going to something as extreme as the Atkins diet.

I have recently looked into some information for eating certain types of nutritional programs based on your blood type.

Since I am just getting into this, I may end up changing my mind but....I am almost 50 now. I have been moderately to seriously into nutrition and health since my 20's. In other words, I'll eat a cheeseburger every now and then but not on a regular basis.

I really never picked up weight until an injury prevented me from certain physical activities (believe me, golf doesn't burn up the calories like running, moto-x). Also, I believe my metabolism has changed (slowed) since reaching mid-40s.

So, I believe for ME, it's a matter of what goes in and what goes out from a caloric standpoint. That is where to start. I need to find a way to get more activity going on. Burning more calories....

Also, one thing I know I can do because I've done it most of my life is to start paying attention to foods that have a high rate of raising insulin levels, thus carbs that have a high glycemic index.

These two things alone should be a good start. From there, I'll see if more drastic measures are necessary.

So, here I sit on Jan 2. I've been 205 for the last 5 years. Today, I got on the scales at 213lbs. I ALWAYS pick up a few temporary lbs this time of the year. So, my goal is to get to 180. That's 33 lbs. My calculations are....reaching that my mid-march to first of April.
 
The reason I am here is my interest in golf and my appreciation of the knowledge here and the sense that the knowledge here is factually grounded in careful observation (by some very smart people, like Brian) and is in a real sense science-based and is not part of some faith-based ...

It's not science based...

It's even better: it's results based.
 
I'm no fatty, but here's my 2 cents...

Where your calories are coming from is important, but the bottom line is if you take in more calories than you expend, then you gain weight. It's very simple but most people miss this.

Do not underestimate the importance of weight training in losing fat. A lot of people do too much cardio and end up losing very little or even gaining weight. Do too much cardio, your body will store fat...and you will eat more.

And fat people eat too few meals, with each meal being too large.

One great way to loose weight is to eat constantly - 5 to 8 small meals a day. Mostly veg, fruit, fish, a little meat and low glycemic carbs. Don't let yourself get full or hungry. Hit the weights room 3 times a week (about 30 mins per session) and do 15-20 mins of cardio 2-4 times a week.

90% of losing fat is about determination and discipline.
 

Chris Sturgess

New member
Um, tongzilla knows what he is talking about. If you are fat, and you forget all the other bs and do what he just said, you will not be fat anymore.
 
Where your calories are coming from is important, but the bottom line is if you take in more calories than you expend, then you gain weight. It's very simple but most people miss this.

Actually, this and additional portions of your post reflects more the common wisdom, which is wrong, than current science. People can eat 1500 calorie diets high in carbs and not lose weight and eat the same amount of calories very low in carbs and lose weight. Read the science if want to learn about this and have as a serious goal to lose significant weight.
 
Actually, this and additional portions of your post reflects more the common wisdom, which is wrong, than current science. People can eat 1500 calorie diets high in carbs and not lose weight and eat the same amount of calories very low in carbs and lose weight. Read the science if want to learn about this and have as a serious goal to lose significant weight.

Niblick, first, notice that I'm NOT saying that food type doesn't matter. I'm just saying sometimes people loose perspective of their total calories.

Assuming calories are equal, some foods makes us feel fuller faster therefore we are less inclined to go munch on other foods.

Think about it another way. I totally agree with Taubes that there are good calories and bad calories. So low glycemic carbs are better than higher ones. Does that mean you can loose weight by eating 5 slices of wholemeal bread rather than 1 slice of white bread? Or a 30oz steak rather than a piece of white bread with some jam? I don't think so - and yet there are people out there who are cheating themselves by thinking they can!

So bottom line: first look at your total calories, then start to consider where those calories are coming from. If you just consider where you calories are coming and eat like it's the end of the world, then from my experience you will not loose fat.
 
Losing fat is not that hard IMO

Um, tongzilla knows what he is talking about. If you are fat, and you forget all the other bs and do what he just said, you will not be fat anymore.

For me personally, I don't think losing fat per se is that hard, especially if you're really fat. You can easily lose a few pounds by eating less and doing some light exercise. Like I said, it's 90% discipline, commitment and determination

However, once you get to "normal" bodyfat levels and want to continue to lose fat while maintaining/gaining muscle - that, to me, is much more challenging. It's a different ball game altogether.

Here, where your calories are coming from is much more important - on one hand you need to maintain/gain muscle, on the other hand you want to lose fat. You really have to monitor what you're eating, how much you're eating, how often you're eating, when you're eating, etc.
 
Most of the responses in this thread repeat common wisdom, much of which has been proven to be wrong. I just want people to know that real information is out there to help people to get actual results. Don't rely on the stuff you read in the popular press, don't rely on common wisdom, seek out the real science and you dramatically increase you chance of not being in the same boat on January 1, 2009, still looking to lose 50 lbs. "Good Calories, Bad Calories" is a good way to begin to get educated.
 
niblick...

I don't know you but...your comments are typical of what I have seen over 30 years of my own studies into nutrition and health.

You read a book, it seems to have a lot of scientific basis. It is now the end all be all to you. When in fact, feeding the body and losing weight is very much like a golf swing. There are different patterns (ways to accomplish) the same results....all in a healthy manner.

It's one thing to lose weight. In doing so, I don't want to destroy my health. At 49 plus years old, I have normal blood pressure, a resting heartbeat of 58, a cholesterol count of less than 170 with a good balance of good and bad, and don't get sick too often. I happen to be a few pounds overweight but healthy. A high protein diet runs a very high risk of undoing many of the good things I have going for me. There is as much scientific evidence against high protein diets as there is for.

So, how about we don't debate diets! How about we post our weight, state our goals, give some encouragement, and become better golfers and healthier people along the way. I think we can rally around Brian's weight goals (BTW...Brian, did you pick up 40 lbs since I last saw you???? 50lbs would have to put you under 160????) and use this forum / thread to promote good heath and better golf for other Manzellaites!
 
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Bill-

You and Tongzilla can read the book and the underlying studies, and then we can debate it, maybe after a round of golf one day. But not here. You both seem like people I'd love to meet on the course one day, but, personally, call me crazy, but I've always found reading a book, particularly technical and science-based books, a helpful first step in debating the merits of a book.

You guys don't know me personally, so it is healthy and natural to think I am just some mouth-breathing doofus who picked up some book filled with lots of junk science that reads like 50 other crappy health and nutrition books, and he thinks he's found the holy grail. That is the sort of scepticism people should bring to discussions about medical issues on the internet. But, really, nothing could be further from the truth. I do understand the basis for the dismissiveness. I am just suggesting that for people who do need a drastic change in direction in their lives (which is clearly not or Tongzilla based on your physical conditions) this is a very good starting point for clearing their minds of some of the discredited and junk science (still repeated in the media today) that may have been holding them back from achieving good, long-lasting results.

And I think that a careful reading of the science will lead people down different paths based on varying personal health issues, gender and age. And I think your world view and Tongzilla's will be at least a little different if you do the reading.

No harm intended to anyone. I now return to golf discussion.

best, niblick1
 
We're cool...

Bill-

You and Tongzilla can read the book and the underlying studies, and then we can debate it, maybe after a round of golf one day. But not here. You both seem like people I'd love to meet on the course one day, but, personally, call me crazy, but I've always found reading a book, particularly technical and science-based books, a helpful first step in debating the merits of a book.

You guys don't know me personally, so it is healthy and natural to think I am just some mouth-breathing doofus who picked up some book filled with lots of junk science that reads like 50 other crappy health and nutrition books, and he thinks he's found the holy grail. That is the sort of scepticism people should bring to discussions about medical issues on the internet. But, really, nothing could be further from the truth. I do understand the basis for the dismissiveness. I am just suggesting that for people who do need a drastic change in direction in their lives (which is clearly not or Tongzilla based on your physical conditions) this is a very good starting point for clearing their minds of some of the discredited and junk science (still repeated in the media today) that may have been holding them back from achieving good, long-lasting results.

And I think that a careful reading of the science will lead people down different paths based on varying personal health issues, gender and age. And I think your world view and Tongzilla's will be at least a little different if you do the reading.

No harm intended to anyone. I now return to golf discussion.

best, niblick1

And just for the heck of it...I'll see if my library has the book and take a look at it.
 

Bronco Billy

New member
The Big Fat Lie........

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The Big Fat Lie........
 
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tank

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Bronco Billy, prompted by your above posts, I have been doing quite a bit of reading on this subject. I have found a lot of convincing information that recommends an Atkins type diet.

I am determined to lose 20 - 25 pounds in the next 6 months, and have recently began exercising again. Also, I am seriously considering starting on the Atkins plan.

Do you have first hand experience with the Atkins (or a similar) diet plan? And would you share that experience?

Thanks.
 
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