Mickelson 7 iron from 198 uphill
- Thread starter wpfisher
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thefuture37
Banned
what kind of lie was it(flyer?)? where was the pin? did he carry it the full distance? how much wind was there? was it that much uphill?
his length is what lets him play the bomb and gouge style that suits his personality. if he wasn't long, he wouldnt be nearly as good a player. his long game full swing just isn't good enough to carry him if it isn't hitting it a long distance.
jeffgladchun
New
Agreed, but he can do some incredible things with a stick and a ball sometimes. And I hate to say that.
If his clubs are a a club strong, a 200 yard six iron isn't all that unbelievable, ask Adam Scott.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Phil's loft are 2-3* stronger than normal tour lofts. I believe his PW goes off a 45*. That would make his 7 iron 2* stronger and basically a 6 iron. Phil also has around 117-118mph clubhead speed with his driver if i remember right, which would probably translate to close to mid 90s to high 90s with a 7 iron maxed out.
200 yards with that swing speed with basically a 6 iron isn't ridiculous.
200 yards with that swing speed with basically a 6 iron isn't ridiculous.
wpfisher
New
Yeah, hearing stated that way sounds less ridiculous. Like you said, if random player is playing, and kostis says 6 iron, I really dont raise an eyebrow. I still want to say that Brian mention in a post that the golf balls on tour were juiced.
dashfan87
New
someone should let Corey Pavin in on the secret...
If they are juiced... I want some... I'm going to go to a tour event and start looking for the off line drives to get hit by, so i can get the obligatory signed glove, and 3 pack of balls...
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
To give you an idea of how much distance Tiger is giving up due to the ball he's playing...go pickup a retail Nike One Platinum; this years model is his EXACT SAME ball. In years past it has been slightly different but this year it's the same. Compare it to your normal ball and you'll see how much distance YOU lose with it and it would only compound for him.
Balls are pretty well tested on tour and are generally the same ones you can buy at the store however there are some balls on tour that are legal to play that you can't buy because they are one offs that didn't make it to retail that some players might still play. If you look at the USGA conforming ball list you will see many listed that you have never seen at retail. BUT that doesn't mean they are juiced; they all have to pass the USGA's testing
Balls are pretty well tested on tour and are generally the same ones you can buy at the store however there are some balls on tour that are legal to play that you can't buy because they are one offs that didn't make it to retail that some players might still play. If you look at the USGA conforming ball list you will see many listed that you have never seen at retail. BUT that doesn't mean they are juiced; they all have to pass the USGA's testing
birdie_man
New
Is it high spin or what Jimbo?
How much distance loss over your normal ball? (which is?)
How much distance loss over your normal ball? (which is?)
wpfisher
New
I get that Jim. I found this statement by Brian from last year over the same debate.
"The balls they play with are hotter. The club they play with are better.THEY are better. If you FLIP a 8-iron and swing hard, it goes maybe 140-155. If you MASH IT it goes 175. I guess that means that they mash it, huh?"
I am sure the balls that are not for sale conform, but still part of me believes the pros, even with perfect strikes of the golf ball, have a little better equipment. A club builder in Indianapolis once told me The stuff off the rack compared to a pros equipment is like comparing a stock Monte Carlo to the NASCAR version. Not quite but I do get his thought process.
Also, if Tiger loses that much on the new platinum, why does he play that particular ball? I would say contractual obligations but his contract says he can play whatever he find to be the best. Could you expound on that?
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thefuture37
Banned
remember the commercials where it says "these guys are good"? well, they actually aren't that good, but they have super duper equipment that the equipment companies don't want the masses to have. The equipment props up their mediocre talent.
you can either believe some version of the aforementioned, or you can get away from consipiracy theories and accept that those guys are in fact really really THAT much better than you are.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Balls.
One year I worked with David in New Orleans, and for the week, David pays me pretty darn good.
His caddy at the time, Scotty, knows pretty much how much DT would pay a teacher for the week. He also knows I can call an equipment company and get a few dozen balls any old time.
He still gave me some used balls.
Get it?
One year I worked with David in New Orleans, and for the week, David pays me pretty darn good.
His caddy at the time, Scotty, knows pretty much how much DT would pay a teacher for the week. He also knows I can call an equipment company and get a few dozen balls any old time.
He still gave me some used balls.
Get it?
wpfisher
New
Loud and clear!
wpfisher
New
Where did I say Tiger and company were 4 handicaps? All I am saying, and basically confirmed by Brian, is there equipment may give them an extra 5-15 yards. I also didnt mention anything about how straight the ball went. They still execute at a level I would only hope to reach.
P.S. List of sports that have better quality that is available off the rack
Baseball ( bats, and balls, college and MLB)
Tennis (I am sure Federer and Nadal buy rackets at Dicks)
Cycling (Does Armstrong use a Huffy from Toys R US)
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Conspiracy?
I have played football my whole life.
Katrina—the bitch—basically ended my near lifelong competitive streak.
Anyhoo, Tom Bartlett & Mike Finney wanted to buy me a nice birthday presnt one year, and took me to a sporting goods store to buy a new "Authentic" NFL "Game Ball."
I walked over to the display of maybe 30 of these "Game Balls," and started spinning them in the air one-by-one.
Tom Bartlett, he of 160 IQ and always curious mind, asked me what I was doing.
"Ya see these balls spin? They are wobbling all over dodge."
Tom could see it easy, and we started testing the balls one-by-one.
Only one decent ball out of 30.
And THAT one would have MAYBE been an NFL practice ball.
You take 30 of those balls and you get a NFL game day warm-up ball. 30 of THOSE and get some NFL Game ball KICKING balls, 30 more to get "Game Balls."
Just curious Future37...have you ever been inside a Tour Van, or looked into PGA Tour player's bags from up close.
Not Edwin Watts, buddy. Trust me.
I have played football my whole life.
Katrina—the bitch—basically ended my near lifelong competitive streak.
Anyhoo, Tom Bartlett & Mike Finney wanted to buy me a nice birthday presnt one year, and took me to a sporting goods store to buy a new "Authentic" NFL "Game Ball."
I walked over to the display of maybe 30 of these "Game Balls," and started spinning them in the air one-by-one.
Tom Bartlett, he of 160 IQ and always curious mind, asked me what I was doing.
"Ya see these balls spin? They are wobbling all over dodge."
Tom could see it easy, and we started testing the balls one-by-one.
Only one decent ball out of 30.
And THAT one would have MAYBE been an NFL practice ball.
You take 30 of those balls and you get a NFL game day warm-up ball. 30 of THOSE and get some NFL Game ball KICKING balls, 30 more to get "Game Balls."
Just curious Future37...have you ever been inside a Tour Van, or looked into PGA Tour player's bags from up close.
Not Edwin Watts, buddy. Trust me.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
Lest anyone still need any more convincing, I had a two time Major winner hand me a sleeve with the following quote "Wait till you hit these, they're the hot tomales"
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
No offense to brian or kevin but i have played numerous 'tour issue balls.' A couple prov1 and prov1x along with a couple prov1 models that were never released retail along with a bunch of different callaway balls.
Some balls were longer than others and some balls were shorter than others. However it depended on my particular needs which is usually low spin balls.
For instance i was given prototypes of this year's Callaway Tour IX last year that was actually named HX <> Tour (sorry can't make the symbol with a keyboard). The Tour IX proto was definitely longer than the current HX Tour of last year (as many are reporting this year). However if I didn't know that and didn't notice the very SLIGHT difference in ball marking i would have thought it was a longer version of the HX Tour made for tour only.
I am not debating that the tour has availability to stuff we can't get like proto's, different CG irons, etc because they do but when it comes to the balls a lot of the players are just playing protos that aren't released yet and may be longer versions of the current ball at retail that may or may not make it to retail.
Some balls were longer than others and some balls were shorter than others. However it depended on my particular needs which is usually low spin balls.
For instance i was given prototypes of this year's Callaway Tour IX last year that was actually named HX <> Tour (sorry can't make the symbol with a keyboard). The Tour IX proto was definitely longer than the current HX Tour of last year (as many are reporting this year). However if I didn't know that and didn't notice the very SLIGHT difference in ball marking i would have thought it was a longer version of the HX Tour made for tour only.
I am not debating that the tour has availability to stuff we can't get like proto's, different CG irons, etc because they do but when it comes to the balls a lot of the players are just playing protos that aren't released yet and may be longer versions of the current ball at retail that may or may not make it to retail.
distances and club selection on TV are constantly overstated
there's a pretty well known incident where adam scott was hitting a "6 iron" from 205ish yards, hit the ball, held his followthrough, and you could read the pretty little "4" right on his club... this is just one out of many of these incidents, to the point that I and many other people automatically add a club and subtract 10 yards from whatever the liars on tv are claiming
there's a pretty well known incident where adam scott was hitting a "6 iron" from 205ish yards, hit the ball, held his followthrough, and you could read the pretty little "4" right on his club... this is just one out of many of these incidents, to the point that I and many other people automatically add a club and subtract 10 yards from whatever the liars on tv are claiming
thefuture37
Banned
I was getting more of the "hot ball" issue, not clubs. Obviously a tour professional isn't playing off the rack clubs. Any amateur with enough money can get a club built any way he wants it too. Just like everything else in business, it boils down to money. If one equipment company has a ball that is conforming and goes a lot farther, then most companies have a similar ball. And if mutliple companies have a "legal juiced" ball, then one of them would be bound to sell it to the general public. And if one of them did this, then all the other companies would quickly follow suit. Now, if the tour balls that you say are different are NOT conforming, then thats a different issue. Obviously no equipment companies are going to sell a version of their ball that anyone could have tested to prove that its illegal.
So are you saying that all of the equipment companies have legal juiced balls, but NONE of them want to make all the extra profit that would come from marketing such a ball to the general public? Or are you saying that some/all tour players use nonconforming balls?
tongzilla
New
Your argument makes good economic sense. One does have to question why if tour balls are legal and so much better, then why aren't they sold to the general public at a premium? Without doing any market research, I can imagine the Japanese market will love something this.
Brian Manzella
Administrator
At some point, they will.
I can even buy the vastly superior "Mexican" Coke at Kroger now.
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