Lagging Clubhead Takeaway / Manzella

[Kevin Shields]

Brian, could you elaborate on the LCT? Are there different types? Core activated or hands only? Straight line like Monty or in an arc like Hogan? Are there different LCT's for different patterns? Right forearm pickup? Would McHatton tell you to stress the shaft with the core?

What say you?

 

[jbrunk]

I have wondered the same thing. I have thought about using an LCT many times but so far I don't have the nutz to try it on the course.

 

[Jim Kobylinski]

There are many many ways to do however i prefer to drag it away with your hands to get the backswing going. I used it exclusively for an entire season and played really well, however had trouble with shorter backswing shots. Felt like i had to create a different swing.

However please note that this was with a very PRONOUNCED LCT; these days i still use it but it's much less noticeable and i do get comments on it from time to time when i play.

 

[Kevin Shields]

I've been doing it by having my pivot hurl my hands to the top by stepping on the right foot and using my core to start. I'm getting a little lag in the takeaway and some float at the top. End result is tremendous lag and great sequence to the downswing. Never hit it so far.

 

[Brian Manzella]

I've been doing it by having my pivot hurl my hands to the top by stepping on the right foot and using my core to start. I'm getting a little lag in the takeaway and some float at the top. End result is tremendous lag and great sequence to the downswing. Never hit it so far.

That sounds like how I would explain it.

GREAT BALL STRIKERS STRESS THE SHAFT IN THE TAKEAWAY!!!!

This is very important.

This is also NOT POSSIBLE with the MEDICUS, a next-to-useless piece of equipment, and also NOT POSSIBLE with that silly version of the "just take your lower right arm to the top" backswing.

Just watch the Snead video.....over and over.

 

[welshdentist]

Would this go along with the phrase

You could HEAR the great players take it away?

 

[tongzilla]

Let's be more precise about this. What does stressing the shaft in the takeaway actually mean? Does it mean the clubhead takes off with a higher speed? Or is there a specific speed/time profile that one refers to. Calling mandrin!

 

[Brian Manzella]

Let's be more precise about this. What does stressing the shaft in the takeaway actually mean?

It means it VISABLY BENDS.

 

[welshdentist]

Brian,

Is that from dragging the club along the ground or from the clubhead staying put whilst the pivot drags away the grip/shaft?

 

[dashfan87]

It means it VISABLY BENDS.

So, what about some that have very exaggerated slow takeaways... the one that comes to mind is Woody Austin... if you are taking the clubhead away that slow, are you going to get visible bend on the shaft?
your statement was "good ball strikers do this" woody is a professional, so I'm guessing hes a good ball striker. Is there anyone on tour you can point to and say, THAT is what im talking about (modern day) and anyone on tour you can point to and say, he is not doing the LTC move at all.
Thanks.

 

[cmartingolf]

Ah, back swings. IMO the root cause of why most golfers suck.

Kevin, I have the exact same feel on my back swing.

"Slow" back swings don't really happen with good players. Sure, Woody Austin may have a "slow" back swing, but I'd still wager it's faster than the typical low handicap club golfer.

During my years of teaching and filming students, one of my favorite teaching aids was the counter/clock on my software program. Tour players swings are over (back swing to impact) in 1.10 to 1.30 seconds. This includes Ernie, Freddy and all the smoothies out there. I bet 90 percent of my amateurs players are just getting their club to their right shoulder on the back swing at 1.10 to 1.30. Their horse lost the race by a mile.

When I show this "timing" to students it freaks them right out. I've had some amazing results SPEEDING up peoples back swings. The speeding up gives them the riciprocal relationship of stressing on the way back and stressing on the way down.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Ah, back swings. IMO the root cause of why most golfers suck.

Kevin, I have the exact same feel on my back swing.

"Slow" back swings don't really happen with good players. Sure, Woody Austin may have a "slow" back swing, but I'd still wager it's faster than the typical low handicap club golfer.

During my years of teaching and filming students, one of my favorite teaching aids was the counter/clock on my software program. Tour players swings are over (back swing to impact) in 1.10 to 1.30 seconds. This includes Ernie, Freddy and all the smoothies out there. I bet 90 percent of my amateurs players are just getting their club to their right shoulder on the back swing at 1.10 to 1.30. Their horse lost the race by a mile.

When I show this "timing" to students it freaks them right out. I've had some amazing results SPEEDING up peoples back swings. The speeding up gives them the riciprocal relationship of stressing on the way back and stressing on the way down.

Hall-of-Fame post.

 

[dashfan87]

But, is there such a thing as too much speed on the back swing... I know that, when I get too fast on the back swing, that is when things go south, if I slow it down, I get clean crisp contact especially with the longer irons.

 

[mb6606]

Ah, back swings. IMO the root cause of why most golfers suck.

Kevin, I have the exact same feel on my back swing.

"Slow" back swings don't really happen with good players. Sure, Woody Austin may have a "slow" back swing, but I'd still wager it's faster than the typical low handicap club golfer.

During my years of teaching and filming students, one of my favorite teaching aids was the counter/clock on my software program. Tour players swings are over (back swing to impact) in 1.10 to 1.30 seconds. This includes Ernie, Freddy and all the smoothies out there. I bet 90 percent of my amateurs players are just getting their club to their right shoulder on the back swing at 1.10 to 1.30. Their horse lost the race by a mile.

When I show this "timing" to students it freaks them right out. I've had some amazing results SPEEDING up peoples back swings. The speeding up gives them the riciprocal relationship of stressing on the way back and stressing on the way down.

Could it also have to do with Tour pros having much shorter swings, more efficient turns and 15-20% greater swing speed than the average amateur? Johnny Miller remarked this weekend that he thought A Kim was to quick on the backswing ala N Price. He liked Villegas's swing better.

 

[moorejr12]

Ah, back swings. IMO the root cause of why most golfers suck.

Kevin, I have the exact same feel on my back swing.

"Slow" back swings don't really happen with good players. Sure, Woody Austin may have a "slow" back swing, but I'd still wager it's faster than the typical low handicap club golfer.

During my years of teaching and filming students, one of my favorite teaching aids was the counter/clock on my software program. Tour players swings are over (back swing to impact) in 1.10 to 1.30 seconds. This includes Ernie, Freddy and all the smoothies out there. I bet 90 percent of my amateurs players are just getting their club to their right shoulder on the back swing at 1.10 to 1.30. Their horse lost the race by a mile.

When I show this "timing" to students it freaks them right out. I've had some amazing results SPEEDING up peoples back swings. The speeding up gives them the riciprocal relationship of stressing on the way back and stressing on the way down.

I agree, I have taken a stop watch many times and watched golf tournaments to time the back swing and downswing to the bal and afterward. I did this long before "Tour Tempo" but they have did a nice summary of this and so did the person who wrote "Extraordinary Golf" Brian has discussed this in some past post.

 

[blehnhard]

Here is my 2 cents worth -

LCT should have a "quick" initial speed (to stress the shaft even if imprecetably) then should begin to "coast" to the top - allows for a smooth startdown - pull till shaft is vertical and then FATS thru impact as you snap the chain.

Another nice benefit of some speed early on in the takeaway / early backswing is that it lets the inertia of the club dictate where it "needs" to go instead of trying to "put the club" in positions.

Bruce

 

[rprevost]

That sounds like how I would explain it.

GREAT BALL STRIKERS STRESS THE SHAFT IN THE TAKEAWAY!!!!

This is very important.

This is also NOT POSSIBLE with the MEDICUS, a next-to-useless piece of equipment, and also NOT POSSIBLE with that silly version of the "just take your lower right arm to the top" backswing.

Just watch the Snead video.....over and over.

What is it about stressing the shaft on the takeaway that would lead to better ball striking? I can see how a lagging takeaway would lead to more lag through the impact area and thus lead to more clubhead speed at impact. What I don't understand is how any particular backswing contributes to ballstriking, other than getting the club into position to be on-plane through the impact area.

 

[Bigwill]

Maybe stressing the shaft in the takeaway leads to a more stressed shaft in the transition, which could then be unloaded on the ball?

 

[Brian Manzella]

Here is my 2 cents worth -

LCT should have a "quick" initial speed (to stress the shaft even if imprecetably) then should begin to "coast" to the top - allows for a smooth startdown - pull till shaft is vertical and then FATS thru impact as you snap the chain.

Another nice benefit of some speed early on in the takeaway / early backswing is that it lets the inertia of the club dictate where it "needs" to go instead of trying to "put the club" in positions.

Bruce

A+

 

[conkanen]

Stressing the shaft on takeaway just doesn't compute with me. I am not disputing it...just find it hard to grasp. Any idea if LCT can be effectively used in the Soft Draw pattern?

Sounds like a good topic for an upcoming show.