manzella neutral grip

[Brian Manzella]

Hmmm...

I didn’t realise that becoming a cheerleader for Brian Manzella was one of the terms and conditions of registration.

No, it is not.

But, after nearly six years running this golf forum and site, the complaint about people like you are running 20 to 1 against those who favor free speech.

For the record, I am not in disagreement with everything that is offered.

Now, that's a compliment!

Question: why doesn’t Ice-Cream-Finney employ “The Manzella Neutral Grip”?

For the record, Mike played well with a "neutral" grip.

He has played well and not so well with stronger ones as well.

Ask Ben Doyle what he thinks of it (the "face/wrist" neutral grip) the next time you see him, or doesn’t his opinion matter any more.

Ben teaches what Ben teaches.

He doesn't like the "Never Hook Again" pattern either.

Or the "Tour Pitch."

So what?

And by the way "paddy"...

Did you read this:

"A grip where the visually flat left wrist is a dead match to the clubface is the PERFECT grip for a lot of folks.

And not so good for others.

It is easier to strengthen it, than to weaken it.

Now, changing the club position in the hand to about 10° stronger is probably more adjustable to all patterns, and even up to 30° is great in some patterns.

Not to mention angle-to-the-shaft changes" —Brian Manzella​

I probably teach a neutral grip about 10° of the time these days.

Why?

Well I teach less stone slicers at $150hr than I did at less.

And I have developed other patterns that work with other grips.

Why?

Because there are golfers who do not want to change their grips. I can now fix them up, without any changes.

No matter how strong the grip it.


Of course, you made no comment on any of that, which honestly, tips your hands.

 

[BurnItUp]

And by the way "paddy"...
Did you read this:

Yes I did Brian and it still amazes me.

A grip where the visually flat left wrist is a dead match to the clubface is the PERFECT grip for a lot of folks.

José María Olazábal maybe.

And not so good for others.

Like the slicers who bought NSA2.

It is easier to strengthen it, than to weaken it.

That’s because it’s already on the limit for Christ’s sake.

Now, changing the club position in the hand to about 10° stronger is probably more adjustable to all patterns, and even up to 30° is great in some patterns.

What about changing the club position in the hand to 10° weaker and even up to 30° weaker?
How many patterns would that work great for?

Neutral is supposed to mean in the middle.

Maybe you should rename it “The Manzella Preferred Grip.”

Or are you too proud and stubborn?

Well I teach less stone slicers at $150hr than I did at less.

Is that because a stone slicer doesn't think he will get his money's worth?

 

[Steve Greffen]

Boy you sure Burned Brian up Burnitup! Wow you are a real man (or woman or child, since we don't know since you won't even tell us who you are.)

I mean the people that come to this site come to hear the Forum's owner speak and we can make up our own minds what we think is what. We can go to another site and then hear what you have to say, but as a novice in this Forum reading stuff I think I may have gone to "your" (or your master's) forum and it pretty much sucked. Maybe the content was okay but the delivery and approach was not very fresh.

Good luck to you in your postings and boy hope you don't get banned again!!

And as I know right now it I would rather take a lesson from Brian at $150 than have you pay me $150 to take one from you. (of course I don't know who you are!)

 

[Brian Manzella]

Sliced and Diced, ready for deep-frying. (Pretty Funny, eh?)

You are no match for me.

And I like it that way.

So, one more time, just for fun, I will blow you out of the water.

José María Olazábal maybe.

I have said on numerous occasions that I don't teach a "Matching" grip all the time, or even a majority of the time.

But...

Maybe you'll recognize these EXACT or nearly EXACT Back of the LEFT HAND matching the CLUBFACE grips.

Neutral is supposed to mean in the middle.

Cool.

I like "Back of the left hand matching the clubface" better, because, well, that's more correct.

Maybe you should rename it “The Manzella Preferred Grip.”

Why?

I don't prefer it often enough.

Why don't you call it whatever you want, like the Caesar Special.

(I don't care who you are, now thats funny — Larry the Cable Guy)

Is that because a stone slicer doesn't think he will get his money's worth?

Never Slice Again will one day be hailed as the best video (and one day a book) ever written in the subject.

Have a nice day!

 

[BurnItUp]

According to you 80% of the golfing world slices the ball.

In NSA2 you recommend that they employ “The Manzella Neutral Grip.”

You then say that you teach it about 10% of the time.

There is a bit of a discrepancy between 10% and 80%.

Would you like me to recommend a Mathematics tutor?

Johnny Miller had one of the weakest grips in the Hall of Fame and you are deluding yourself if you believe it was neutral.

You appear to be obsessed with the relationship between the club face and lead hand.

Having a clubface that matches the plane at the top of the swing is what’s orthodox.

Have a nice day yourself.

 

[Brian Manzella]

Easy Questions, Simple Answers.

According to you 80% of the golfing world slices the ball.

That's minimum.

In NSA2 you recommend that they employ “The Manzella Neutral Grip.”

Yup.

The reasons are outlined in the video, and have been discussed on here at length.

The simple answer is I fixed slices for about 10 years with a grip similar to what you advocate, and the "Matching" grip worked much, much better.

It wasn't even close.

Now, there are hundreds of teachers doing the same thing. They report the same results back to me.

You then say that you teach it about 10% of the time.

That's because the folks who take lessons from me, do not represent the full demographics of all golfers.

Lately, I have been teaching a lot of single-digit handicappers.

And, only 10% or less of all golfers even take lessons.

Johnny Miller had one of the weakest grips in the Hall of Fame and you are deluding yourself if you believe it was neutral.

The Pictures speak for themselves.

You appear to be obsessed with the relationship between the club face and lead hand.

If you understand the golf swing, you'd BETTER be at least semi-obssesed with that relationship.

Having a clubface that matches the plane at the top of the swing is what’s orthodox.

The D-Plane is WAY more important than that.


This is fun...let's keep playing.

I like running up the score.

 

[tongzilla]

Brian, do you find it easier to get students to have the grip properly under the heel pad with a slightly stronger than Manzella Neutral grip?

 

[Kevin Shields]

Numb Nuts....

Burn,the slicers employ that grip to learn how to rotate the lead arm and match the clubface thru the ball. Once they can do that, they can move on and strengthen their grip and learn a toss release and add zip to the shot. Its a progression.

Now get a life.

 

[dashfan87]

Burn,the slicers employ that grip to learn how to rotate the lead arm and match the clubface thru the ball. Once they can do that, they can move on and strengthen their grip and learn a toss release and add zip to the shot. Its a progression.

Now get a life.

Brian has been owning it the whole time, but that pretty much sums it up. for me, best post in this thread.

 

[Guitar Hero]

Who cares what you call the grip. All that matters is the student understands it. This tread is ridiculous. It sounds like BurnItUp could be part of another gang. Ben Doyle said he could hit it good with any grip. Just a thought?

 

[Zztop]

ben doyle could hit it good with any grip and so can a lot of good players and instructors because they know and burnitup blows.

 

[BurnItUp]

If the “Manzella Neutral Grip” was truly neutral, the number of tour players with grips weaker than it would be just as high as the number of tour players with grips stronger than it.

This is not the case. There are far more strong grips than weak grips on tour.

Furthermore, the degree by which their grips are stronger than Manzella-neutral is far greater than the degree by which their grips are weaker than Manzella-neutral.

There are numerous professionals with grips considerably stronger than the one you advocate but there are none with grips considerably weaker.

The definition of neutral is supposed to be in the middle.

Just ask yourself the following question.

If you screened every touring professional and calculated their average grip, do you think it would be stronger than “The Manzella Neutral Grip?”

 

[Zztop]

what is your point? does this one thing of manzella 's neutral grip really upset you. or do you want a grip named after you? some people see a dog chase his tail, other people see a tail trying to avoid a dog. it's all in the eye of the beholder! give it a rest!

 

[Amen Corner]

If the “Manzella Neutral Grip” was truly neutral, the number of tour players with grips weaker than it would be just as high as the number of tour players with grips stronger than it.

This is not the case. There are far more strong grips than weak grips on tour.

Furthermore, the degree by which their grips are stronger than Manzella-neutral is far greater than the degree by which their grips are weaker than Manzella-neutral.

There are numerous professionals with grips considerably stronger than the one you advocate but there are none with grips considerably weaker.

The definition of neutral is supposed to be in the middle.

Just ask yourself the following question.

If you screened every touring professional and calculated their average grip, do you think it would be stronger than “The Manzella Neutral Grip?”

I think you have to truly understand the reason of why and to who he recommends this kind of grip.

What are the kind of people that mostly takes lessons from Brian? Amateurs or Pro´s?

I understand your statement. In the perfect world, Neutral should be in the middle.

But the world is not perfect.....Pittsburgh did win....

 

[Kevin Shields]

The "Manzella-neutral" IS in the middle. Just because left of the middle of grips is unworkable for most patterns doesnt mean that it still isnt in the middle. We're not talking about the middle of good grips, its the middle of ALL grips. Anything turned left of Manz neutral is weaker and anything turned right of it is stronger, HENCE NEUTRAL.

 

[Steve Greffen]

It's so neutral it's Switzerland! (or is that Sweden?)

That does make sense though, maybe it should be called the Manzella Middle Grip instead. Burnitup's flame is fading out!

 

[mjstrong]

The "Manzella-neutral" IS in the middle. Just because left of the middle of grips is unworkable for most patterns doesnt mean that it still isnt in the middle. We're not talking about the middle of good grips, its the middle of ALL grips. Anything turned left of Manz neutral is weaker and anything turned right of it is stronger, HENCE NEUTRAL.

Aruging over semantics, really. This ^^ definition is good enough for me.

Whether you call it Neutral, Weak, or Pineapple, it doesn't change the positioning of the hands themselves. Nor does it change the affectiveness of it, which is really what grip debates are about.

 

[tongzilla]

for bleep's sake...

Why is there so much chit chat about this grip.

A rose is a rose...it is what it is...it is a grip where the back of the left hand matches the leading edge of the clubface...so call it the "back-of-the-left-hand-matching-clubface-grip"...or if you're lazy like me...the "Manzella Neutral Grip" (why add Manzella to the name? i guess it's cuz he made a big fuss about this matching relationship)...or just call it the "Neutral Grip".

Or I guess you can take measurements on grip strength of various professionals and take the median/mean as "neutral"...of course...this will fluctuate depending on your sample and over time as well. Or you can just use the n00b 2-knuckle rule as neutral.

I know which makes more sense for classification purposes

 

[Brian Manzella]

Cuz, Leo...

BurnItUp's blatherings have next to nothing to do which what to call this type of grip.

It is just another, weak, pointless, waste-of-time, incoherent attack on me and this site.

It hasn't worked before and it will NEVER work.

The internet is a little different than the non-internet.

40 million golfers worldwide, no one else is golf land who has the combination of my training, experience, knowledge, understanding, research, communication skills, on-air presence, teaching ability, good help like (Tom, Mike, Jim, Kevin, Damon, Ryan, Chris, Michael, and Jon), and smart forum members like you Leo.

I was threat when I was 20, 27 years later, I am still a threat.

A threat to the status quo of golf instruction (thankfully).

A threat to the "troubleshooters."

A threat to the book literalists.

Etc.

I don't have any real agenda, except a constant pursuit of the truth, a constant search for a better way, and a desire to be the very best.

And I am quite the counter-puncher, and needle sticker.

They will never go away completely. They are what they are.

Second place, minimum.

 

[dbl]

I have heard other references to a "neutral grip" and those references are quite ill defined, if defined at all. The Manzella Neutral Grip is succintly defined and easy for any golfer to put on correctly.