Brian Manzella
Administrator
Chew on this, flat swing lovers.
And please, don't choke on it.
And please, don't choke on it.
Upright Swings are bad—right?
- Thread starter Brian Manzella
- Start date
- Status
Brian Manzella
Administrator
It should be noted...
I have NOTHING against flat swings.
If they work.
If they produce a good kinetic chain snap, and control the D-Plane.
I have many students with flatter swings than the ones in the above pic.
And I have some MORE upright.
I have NOTHING against flat swings.
If they work.
If they produce a good kinetic chain snap, and control the D-Plane.
I have many students with flatter swings than the ones in the above pic.
And I have some MORE upright.
KOC
New
Dear Brian,
Would you also please share how do you define by flat swing? Anything below the turned right shoulder socket plane? Some examples will be great too.
BTW, "Upright swing" ; "Flat swing"...I used to have a question in my mind...what if Jack swung like Hogan and Hogan swung like Sam?...what a silly question!
Would you also please share how do you define by flat swing? Anything below the turned right shoulder socket plane? Some examples will be great too.
BTW, "Upright swing" ; "Flat swing"...I used to have a question in my mind...what if Jack swung like Hogan and Hogan swung like Sam?...what a silly question!
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Yeah, baby!
That's how I would define it, yes.
If Jack swung like Hogan he'd have sold insurance or took over his Dad's Drug Store business. If Hogan swung like Sam, he'd would not have made it, and might have been a great club pro.
As far as examples go, I'll wait a bit.
I just REALLY wanted to do this one for a long time.
The "POP INSTRUCTION" idea, that the left arm needs to be parallel to the shoulder lines is how the "Flat Lovers" define their preference for flatness.
"They say" that this will produce the most speed.
They are missing about 100 other elements.
But, let's see, they'll say the folks in the pictures are wrong somehow.
Mark it down.
That's how I would define it, yes.
If Jack swung like Hogan he'd have sold insurance or took over his Dad's Drug Store business. If Hogan swung like Sam, he'd would not have made it, and might have been a great club pro.
As far as examples go, I'll wait a bit.
I just REALLY wanted to do this one for a long time.
The "POP INSTRUCTION" idea, that the left arm needs to be parallel to the shoulder lines is how the "Flat Lovers" define their preference for flatness.
"They say" that this will produce the most speed.
They are missing about 100 other elements.
But, let's see, they'll say the folks in the pictures are wrong somehow.
Mark it down.
Richie3Jack
New
I flattened my swing quite a bit this year and I get questions about it all of the time. My preference for the flatter swing has to do with, IMO, it being a bit easier to avoid coming OTT with a flatter swing. I think this happens to golfers in general just because my line of thinking is if you play a shot with a lie well above your feet, your swing flattens out quite a bit and it's very difficult to come OTT, which is probably my largest flaw that I fall back into.
But quite simply, there's plenty of golfers that either don't struggle with the occassional OTT move or the more upright swing just 'makes sense' to them. Essentially, no 'one way' to swing the club. People should know that by now, unfortunately too many do not.
3JACK
But quite simply, there's plenty of golfers that either don't struggle with the occassional OTT move or the more upright swing just 'makes sense' to them. Essentially, no 'one way' to swing the club. People should know that by now, unfortunately too many do not.
3JACK
tongzilla
New
I think one of the reasons pop instruction like flatness is because it gives a sense of security and tightness with the right elbow closer to the body. The swing feels tidier and more repeatable. The hands/elbow needs to travel a smaller distance to drop into the "slot" (another pop instruction concept).
Brian/ others,
First off, I agree with you and I have a swing thats upright and slighly across the line.
How would you counter the claim of pop-instruction that upright swings lead to wildness and inconsistency?
If I'm shooting for a SD pattern and I find myself somedays on the course hitting pushes/hooks- would you encourage me to add some NHA2 feel on those days? Maybe "shake the sugar" or yellow brick road?
First off, I agree with you and I have a swing thats upright and slighly across the line.
How would you counter the claim of pop-instruction that upright swings lead to wildness and inconsistency?
If I'm shooting for a SD pattern and I find myself somedays on the course hitting pushes/hooks- would you encourage me to add some NHA2 feel on those days? Maybe "shake the sugar" or yellow brick road?
TROYNYGOLFER
New
My Crystal Ball
About one year from now some Golf Digest Top Ten Teacher will conduct some extensive "research," and this innovative cutting-edge research will result in his "discovery" of the secret of the upright swing, and give it a new name like the High Explosion swing; hence the lemmings will have something new to write about for a year.
About one year from now some Golf Digest Top Ten Teacher will conduct some extensive "research," and this innovative cutting-edge research will result in his "discovery" of the secret of the upright swing, and give it a new name like the High Explosion swing; hence the lemmings will have something new to write about for a year.
WoodbridgeGolf37
New
Great Post - Reassuring
I can't tell you how much time I've spent trying to get my swing flatter at the top. I was too busy trying to emulate pictures and trace invisible lines, rather than addressing the root causes of my misses (over-rotation of left arm, pop-out and poor pivot).
Showing some of the all-time greats in positions that would be considered "upright" by some in the instruction community is very reassuring and only reinforces the concept of customization.
I can't tell you how much time I've spent trying to get my swing flatter at the top. I was too busy trying to emulate pictures and trace invisible lines, rather than addressing the root causes of my misses (over-rotation of left arm, pop-out and poor pivot).
Showing some of the all-time greats in positions that would be considered "upright" by some in the instruction community is very reassuring and only reinforces the concept of customization.
I started to focus on a a good weight shift and operating above the "shoulder glass" (an imaginary piece of glass between the ball and my right armpit) in my takeaway and I've substantially improved my ball striking. As long as my center doesn't move too much I can make a pretty consistant pass the ball. A head that sways right = slice for me, a head that moves left = bad weight shift and potentially hosel rocket.
This all stemmed from repeated viewings of NHA2. All I think about is operating above the glass.
This all stemmed from repeated viewings of NHA2. All I think about is operating above the glass.
rogerdodger
New
Results should be worth something in the analysis. Add in as well Cabrera, Wadkins, Ballesteros... Lot longer list than flat.
Steve Khatib
Super Moderator
vjsinger
New
Seems to me that alot of Americans on the PGA Tour swing more upright than the euros on their tour. Is the wind that much worse over their? I've only been to Germany once and it was pretty far inland and it was during the winter, but I didn't think it was that much worse than Ohio in the winter. An interesting topic to me is the discussion on geography and how that dictates how a player swings the club..thoughts?
mgranato
New
Watson is maybe the most upright of the bunch and also has the most Open Champs.
Kevin Shields
Super Moderator
I do bleieve the sect that likes flatter swings largely because they make prettier lines. I still like the "look" of it and have nothing against it as well, as long as its better for that player.
Jim Kobylinski
Super Moderator
Flat looks better i'll agree but as i said in a post long ago and even brought up at the GTE...how many players are in the hall of fame with flat swings?
jeffreycharris
New
I don't know. . . how many? Is it really weighted toward the upright guys? I suppose the mystic of Hogan trumps actual numbers?
So what makes a flatter swing better for a player? What makes an upright swing better for a player? I'm curious because I never seem to get a clear answer on this question when I ask instructors I've seen.
- Status