Leaving putts short
- Thread starter Marktui
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Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
1. Too short a backstroke,
2. Tightness in the downstroke,
3. Decelerating in the downstroke,
4. Ineffective targeting - not perceiving slope/green speed/distance of putt
2. Tightness in the downstroke,
3. Decelerating in the downstroke,
4. Ineffective targeting - not perceiving slope/green speed/distance of putt
Brian Manzella
Administrator
My putting speed philosophy.
NEVER make a backstroke that MAKES YOU accelerate too much to get the ball to the hole.
NEVER make a backstroke that MAKES YOU slow down too much to keep the ball from going way past the hole.
NEVER make a backstroke that MAKES YOU accelerate too much to get the ball to the hole.
NEVER make a backstroke that MAKES YOU slow down too much to keep the ball from going way past the hole.
Richie3Jack
New
Usually I find that golfers that leave putts short do so because they concentrate so much on reading the putt and/or having the perfect aim that they forget about speed and almost always have it going right at the cup, but leaving it short.
I look at speed/touch as my responsibility to develop before each round. So there's no excuse for 'slow greens.' If you find yourself leaving putts short, start focusing a bit further past the cup.
Also, sometimes when I get the putterface closed at impact, that de-lofts the putterface and the ball just doesn't roll like it should.
3JACK
I look at speed/touch as my responsibility to develop before each round. So there's no excuse for 'slow greens.' If you find yourself leaving putts short, start focusing a bit further past the cup.
Also, sometimes when I get the putterface closed at impact, that de-lofts the putterface and the ball just doesn't roll like it should.
3JACK
matt kluck
New
ggsjpc
New
Most people live a life where a little too far causes pain and damage. Breaking through that state can be difficult for some. For some, the trick is trying to redefine the task from 'make it' to hit the ball a certain distance. Each of us should choose a distance we are trying to hit a putt. That choice affects our aim as it affects the break. If you are a 2 foot past the hole putter, when you have a 6 foot putt, you are trying to hit an eight foot putt where the hole is on the arc of the putt 2 feet from the end.
In a full swing, many players make the mistake of thinking the swing ends at the ball when in reality, impact happens somewhere in the middle. In putting, many players make the same mistake thinking the ball going in the hole is at the end of the putt. The ball going in is usually somewhere before the end of the roll for the entire putt. Your goal is to roll the ball the total distance you are trying to cover. Hopefully, the cup is somewhere before the end.
In a full swing, many players make the mistake of thinking the swing ends at the ball when in reality, impact happens somewhere in the middle. In putting, many players make the same mistake thinking the ball going in the hole is at the end of the putt. The ball going in is usually somewhere before the end of the roll for the entire putt. Your goal is to roll the ball the total distance you are trying to cover. Hopefully, the cup is somewhere before the end.
Phil Rosenbaum
New
John, but then how do you gage how far to roll it? Why would how far the ball rolls past the hole matter if the goal is to make it? Not sure I follow you on this one. I agree that the brain protects us from pain, and also protects us from TOO far. But how do you then gage TOO short.
First question I think of is what is the overall length of your stroke. Long strokes, esp. follow throughs generally lead to a slower pace.
The drill I like for improving speed control really has to do with awareness. Take 3 putts while looking at the target, or cup. Then take 3 more putts while keeping your head steady (no peaking). Finally, call your putts before looking up. Final strokes should go... stroke, finish, call it (long, short, right, left) swivel your head to look, stand up.
The better awareness you have of what your stroke produces, the easier you will make adjustments.
Hope this helps, also love Brians post, that ones gonna be put in play.
ggsjpc
New
It is up to each of us to determine how much speed we like to have entering the hole.
It should be based in part on what speed does the hole capture well, how good we are at controlling our pace and how confident we are in our ability to make the next putt from wherever it may end up.
I am certainly not encouraging anyone to roll the ball past the hole just to do so.
The total distance a player rolls the ball will react a certain way which is different than if they roll it a different distance.
If they are playing for a certain break and they are correct in that amount of break, that break equals some speed.
If that break equals a total speed of 8 feet for a 6 foot putt, then they should be trying to hit an 8 foot putt.
The hole is simply on the arc created by that 8 foot putt 2 feet before the end.
There it goes in.
If there was no hole there and a profile of the hole was painted on the green, the ball would roll through the center of the circle on it's way to its end point of 8 feet.
In fact, I would say most player's choose line before they choose speed.
This is completely backwards.
By choosing line, they have inherently already chosen speed.
Choose the distance you are going to hit the putt first and visualize how that ball will roll to determine your aiming point.
Gauge too short? I don't understand the question.
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Damon Lucas
Super Moderator
John, I disagree that thinking about the length of the putt as including 2 feet past the hole as helpful in any way.
First off, the 'arc' does not resemble an arc in any way due to speed degradation at various points. Why would you want to visualize the'arc after the hole unless you're thinking about your 2nd or 3rd putt.
Unless you're trying to sell charts to people maybe!
Imagine parking a car or entering a freeway with that concept?
First off, the 'arc' does not resemble an arc in any way due to speed degradation at various points. Why would you want to visualize the'arc after the hole unless you're thinking about your 2nd or 3rd putt.
Unless you're trying to sell charts to people maybe!
Imagine parking a car or entering a freeway with that concept?
Phil Rosenbaum
New
John, if the brain can gauge too far, can it not gauge too short?
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ggsjpc
New
I would sure hope so, but I guess I'm missing the point.
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ggsjpc
New
I offered a way that some may/have use(d) to visualize a way for seeing the ball enter the hole at a certain speed.
You mean the ball doesn't roll perfectly true on grass?
I'm Shocked!
Maybe I should have said through the hole but I did say that with this little piece:
I'm disappointed to see you've been infected.
It's a sad day when someone on the Manzella team loses their open mindedness.
You guys should continue to focus your energy on enforcing the USGA rules as you see fit and have the all yardage books declared illegal.
Good Luck with that!
I have.
Thank you for proving my point.
Curious though.
Where is the hole in those examples?
Brian Manzella
Administrator
Putting, Aim, Speed, and the Black Art.
The best putters I ever saw up close and in person were Freddie Haas, Buddy Majors, Greg Lesher, & Matt Savage.
I'm sure I am missing a few.
The point is that they had WILDLY different strokes, hit the ball wildly different speeds, with wildly different acceleration profiles.
I am DAMN SURE none of those guys knew ANYTHING about reading greens in a way that would impress any modern putting guru, or wantabee.
There are a couple of schools of thought on the high end of green reading, and a couple hundred on stroke mechanics.
John, Damon has an opinion, you have an opinion.
I think maybe you guys should hash it out in PMs.
The best putters I ever saw up close and in person were Freddie Haas, Buddy Majors, Greg Lesher, & Matt Savage.
I'm sure I am missing a few.
The point is that they had WILDLY different strokes, hit the ball wildly different speeds, with wildly different acceleration profiles.
I am DAMN SURE none of those guys knew ANYTHING about reading greens in a way that would impress any modern putting guru, or wantabee.
There are a couple of schools of thought on the high end of green reading, and a couple hundred on stroke mechanics.
John, Damon has an opinion, you have an opinion.
I think maybe you guys should hash it out in PMs.
First question I think of is what is the overall length of your stroke. Long strokes, esp. follow throughs generally lead to a slower pace.
The drill I like for improving speed control really has to do with awareness. Take 3 putts while looking at the target, or cup. Then take 3 more putts while keeping your head steady (no peaking). Finally, call your putts before looking up. Final strokes should go... stroke, finish, call it (long, short, right, left) swivel your head to look, stand up.
The better awareness you have of what your stroke produces, the easier you will make adjustments.
Hope this helps, also love Brians post, that ones gonna be put in play.
My tendency is to have a long backstroke and I believe I don't follow thru with an equal length.
I will try the putting drill you stated.
Thanks for all the help to everyone!!
Richie3Jack
New
The best putter I ever saw was a mini-tour player that I played a lot of golf with after college. He was such a great putter that Brian Henninger and Robert Damron both told me he was hands down the best putter they ever saw, too. And so did other various mini-tour pros that had seen their fair share of the greats.
Of course, he was a horrible ballstriker and his problem was he couldn’t keep his ball in play very often for the entire 18-hole round. But a good day of hitting the ball may be 9 GIR and 1 shot in the hazard, and he shoots 68 or so, easily (he had a great all around short game).
Anyway, his putting left such a lasting mark on me that ten years later I contemplated quite how was he able to putt so well?
You see, this guy had his feet spread wayyyy apart, almost like Moe Norman would do…with a driver.
He also had a very closed stance. And then a massive forward press. He would then make his stroke and it looked like he ‘moved his head’ at impact, almost like David Duval in his prime.
Ugly as sin putting stroke and not a technique anybody in the world would ever teach a golfer.
Yet, get him on a practice green for a putting match and you’d be better off throwing y our wallet under a lawnmower. What’s funny is Bobby Locke had a really goofy putting stroke and was one of the all time great putters. Arnie use to ‘pop it’ and drill everything.
For the first 5 years, I just chalked it up to his impeccable ability to read greens and it being a ‘natural’ and ‘one in a million’ talent.
But there were some other things that stuck in my brain about his putting as well.
1. He was very aggressive on his putts. Missed putts, even short ones (which were rare) would go a good 2-3 feet past the cup
2. His aggressive touch was extremely consistent. Also probably the best I’ve ever seen. His putts may go 2-3 feet past the cup, but I swear pretty much every putt…regardless of speed, slope, break, etc…would go 1 to 3 feet or so past the cup. He almost never missed short and never really missed way too long as he very rarely had a long 2nd putt.
My feeling is now that while he did have a really great ability to read greens, I think it was his uncanny ability to have such a consistent speed/touch is why he was such a great putter. If you can get the speed like he did down that consistently, sooner or later you start to understand how so many of these putts exactly break. I think his aggressive nature is up to the person, but I do think it prevents the ball from wobbling off line a bit better.
That’s why for me developing a consistent touch around the greens now is my first priority when it comes to putting and practicing putting. And so far, it’s worked quite well and seems to be the thing with my putting that has really stood a test of time (so far, I’ve only been doing it for 3 weeks).
3JACK
Of course, he was a horrible ballstriker and his problem was he couldn’t keep his ball in play very often for the entire 18-hole round. But a good day of hitting the ball may be 9 GIR and 1 shot in the hazard, and he shoots 68 or so, easily (he had a great all around short game).
Anyway, his putting left such a lasting mark on me that ten years later I contemplated quite how was he able to putt so well?
You see, this guy had his feet spread wayyyy apart, almost like Moe Norman would do…with a driver.
He also had a very closed stance. And then a massive forward press. He would then make his stroke and it looked like he ‘moved his head’ at impact, almost like David Duval in his prime.
Ugly as sin putting stroke and not a technique anybody in the world would ever teach a golfer.
Yet, get him on a practice green for a putting match and you’d be better off throwing y our wallet under a lawnmower. What’s funny is Bobby Locke had a really goofy putting stroke and was one of the all time great putters. Arnie use to ‘pop it’ and drill everything.
For the first 5 years, I just chalked it up to his impeccable ability to read greens and it being a ‘natural’ and ‘one in a million’ talent.
But there were some other things that stuck in my brain about his putting as well.
1. He was very aggressive on his putts. Missed putts, even short ones (which were rare) would go a good 2-3 feet past the cup
2. His aggressive touch was extremely consistent. Also probably the best I’ve ever seen. His putts may go 2-3 feet past the cup, but I swear pretty much every putt…regardless of speed, slope, break, etc…would go 1 to 3 feet or so past the cup. He almost never missed short and never really missed way too long as he very rarely had a long 2nd putt.
My feeling is now that while he did have a really great ability to read greens, I think it was his uncanny ability to have such a consistent speed/touch is why he was such a great putter. If you can get the speed like he did down that consistently, sooner or later you start to understand how so many of these putts exactly break. I think his aggressive nature is up to the person, but I do think it prevents the ball from wobbling off line a bit better.
That’s why for me developing a consistent touch around the greens now is my first priority when it comes to putting and practicing putting. And so far, it’s worked quite well and seems to be the thing with my putting that has really stood a test of time (so far, I’ve only been doing it for 3 weeks).
3JACK
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