Wind Effecting Ball Flight Question

[Richie3Jack]

Let's say you have a pretty good wind (3 clubs or so) and it is blowing directly from left to right.

Let's say you have a perfectly square to the target face (0.0*), and path (0.0*) and you hit this dead flush.

Would the ball start to curve because of the wind before the ball flight reaches its apex or after it reaches its apex? Or are there other circumstances that could cause something different?






3JACK

 

[duckjr78]

Let's say you have a pretty good wind (3 clubs or so) and it is blowing directly from left to right.

Let's say you have a perfectly square to the target face (0.0*), and path (0.0*) and you hit this dead flush.

Would the ball start to curve because of the wind before the ball flight reaches its apex or after it reaches its apex? Or are there other circumstances that could cause something different?






3JACK

Absolutly this ball will curve before it hits it's apex. Height of the ball shouldn't have anything to do with how much a particular wind affects the ball.

Not the same thing, but a putt starts breaking directly off the putterface too, right?

 

[Richie3Jack]

Absolutly this ball will curve before it hits it's apex. Height of the ball shouldn't have anything to do with how much a particular wind affects the ball.

I wasn't thinking so much ball height, but velocity and acceleration.





3JACK

 

[duckjr78]

I wasn't thinking so much ball height, but velocity and acceleration.





3JACK

My physics is way worse than others on this site, but I would have to think that the wind is applying a force on the ball no matter what its velocity or acceleration. Heck even when it is sitting still on the ground, the wind is blowing it, just not very far.

I'll add a question, if I may. For the longest time, I've assumed that a long iron would curve less given the same wind conditions than a short iron. Now that we know the apex of the ball is roughly equivalent on all shots, does the wind actually affect a long iron (or shot) more than a short one?

 

[Richie3Jack]

My physics is way worse than others on this site, but I would have to think that the wind is applying a force on the ball no matter what its velocity or acceleration. Heck even when it is sitting still on the ground, the wind is blowing it, just not very far.

I'll add a question, if I may. For the longest time, I've assumed that a long iron would curve less given the same wind conditions than a short iron. Now that we know the apex of the ball is roughly equivalent on all shots, does the wind actually affect a long iron (or shot) more than a short one?

My thoughts on velocity and acceleration is that the wind is certainly applying its force on a ball, but that the the faster and more acceleration a ball has, the less force the wind may have on the ball.

As far as the wind on a long shot versus a short shot, I believe the wind will move a ball more with a long shot because long shots have more hang time and thus travel a greater distance....not only vertically (down torward the target) but also travel a greater distance horizontally.






3JACK

 

[Jay845]

My thoughts on velocity and acceleration is that the wind is certainly applying its force on a ball, but that the the faster and more acceleration a ball has, the less force the wind may have on the ball.


3JACK

I would think the force applied by the wind would be equal no matter the ball speed, however I think that the ball would be moved sideways more at a slower velocity as opposed to a high velocity (hope this makes sense)

 

[softconsult]

We need a ballistics expert (like a Sniper).

 

[mjstrong]

I would think the force applied by the wind would be equal no matter the ball speed, however I think that the ball would be moved sideways more at a slower velocity as opposed to a high velocity (hope this makes sense)

This was exactly what I was thinking...

 

[mjstrong]

I don't think so savydan. I see two issues with that, but am always willing to stand corrected.

1) I don't think wind passes on all of it's speed influence. For example, a 50mph wind will not push a plane sideways at 50mph. We see this proven every single say.

2) If this plane's force vector's were examined, 50mph sideways would result in a different "angle of flight" when it's going forwards 500mph vs. 350mph. Just like a golf ball's spin axis.

 

[Frans@France]

ball 139mph
launch angle 9.3 degree
backspin 2770
spin axis 0
--
carry 210.6 yard, apex +/-18 after 135 yards, side 0 yards
--
wind 50mph
direction 90 degree
--
carry 222 yards, apex +/- 20 after 140 yard, side 57 yards, curve starts at 25 yards

 

[Frans@France]

PS for those of you who would like to do these kind of calculations try
- trajectoware (free)
- OptimalFlight (paid)

 

[leon]

The drag force on an object, or rather transverse force in a perfect crosswind, is a function of fluid velocity (squared) and drag coefficient. It doesn't have anything to do with particle (ball) velocity. But wind speed will vary some with height (especially with a lot of big trees in the way) so I'd expect some difference between clubs due to differing trajectories and hang time. And I have no idea how backspin would affect the tranverse drag coefficient. Its essentially a rifling spin to a crosswind.

Thanks for the interesting subject.

 

[mjstrong]

The drag force on an object, or rather transverse force in a perfect crosswind, is a function of fluid velocity (squared) and drag coefficient. It doesn't have anything to do with particle (ball) velocity. But wind speed will vary some with height (especially with a lot of big trees in the way) so I'd expect some difference between clubs due to differing trajectories and hang time. And I have no idea how backspin would affect the tranverse drag coefficient. Its essentially a rifling spin to a crosswind.

Thanks for the interesting subject.

Sounds interesting Leon, are you able to elaborate a little more (layman's terms, perhaps...)?

 

[leon]

Sounds interesting Leon, are you able to elaborate a little more (layman's terms, perhaps...)?

Which bit?

 

[mjstrong]

Actually, after re-reading it (a few times), I think I get what you're saying. I understand that ball velocity wouldn't be the factor to consider, but rather the amount of time that the ball is exposed to the crosswind (hang time). Thanks.

 

[duckjr78]

Actually, after re-reading it (a few times), I think I get what you're saying. I understand that ball velocity wouldn't be the factor to consider, but rather the amount of time that the ball is exposed to the crosswind (hang time). Thanks.

If you're right, that means I got one right. Yahoo for me!

 

[dominicscaife]

Aerodynamic awareness

Great thread.

I've messed around on trajectoware myself a few times and learned a thing or two, but never came to that interesting and, to me, unintuitive conclusion.

A ball hit in a perfect crosswind carries further than a ball in no wind.

Of course, that perfect crosswind probably fluctuates a little bit of against and a little behind depending on the instant the shot is struck so there's still some luck involved... just a little less luck as we learn more!

Thanks all who contributed.

 

[mjstrong]

A ball hit in a perfect crosswind carries further than a ball in no wind.

That is very interesting. I guess, though the ball flight starts off at 90 degrees to the crosswind, as the wind pushes it's sideways, the angle continually changes and it becomes more behind the ball pushing it in that direction; extra forces that wouldn't have happened in zero wind. Cool.

So, if a 50mph wind at 90 degrees added 5% distance to a shot, and a "normal" light wind might be 10mph (?), it may only add 1% to a shot's yardage. Probably not enough for me to change clubs very often, but still an interesting idea.

 

[mjstrong]

Another question I thought about tonight on the same topic.

I've heard many pros, including Tiger, claim that a "well struck" shot isn't affected by the wind (thinking, laterally) as much. But, a well hit shot with identical resulting launch conditions to a mis-hit, will result the exact same way, no?

Once a ball's flying through the air, it doesn't know if it was hit well or not...

 

[leon]

A ball hit in a perfect crosswind carries further than a ball in no wind.

Not sue how you come to that conclusion. In a perfect crosswind there is no way the wind can exert any force on the ball along the targetline, PERIOD (I always wanted to say that!). As far as I can see, all things being equal a crosswind should not affect the tagertwards distance a golf ball carries (unless changes in fluid flow over the dimples affects the lift/drag, but you'd have to ask a fluids expert). If you include the distance the ball travels off line as it curves due to the side-wind then I guess the total distance travelled does increase, but I don't think this would affect club selection, would it?

I guess so far I have neglected to consider that in a corsswind you would either aim slightly towards the wind to account for the curve, which then puts you marginally into the wind, or you would use draw/cut spin to hold the shot against the wind, which again will change the flight characteristics.

I've heard many pros, including Tiger, claim that a "well struck" shot isn't affected by the wind (thinking, laterally) as much. But, a well hit shot with identical resulting launch conditions to a mis-hit, will result the exact same way, no?

If you have two shots with identical launch conditions, how can one be well struck and the other be a miss-hit? That said, I would expect a 'well-struck' shot (whatever that means) to fly better in a crosswind due to the gyroscopic stability induced by backspin. That was what I was thinking of wen I mentioned rifiling before. I should have reailsed it was a gyroscopic effect having recently acquired a powerball!

Of course in a head/tail wind, you start messing with magnus effect induced lift, which makes things even more fun