Foley, Woods, Trackman and...

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islandgolf629

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This is coming from a blog, so take it however you want.

Teaching Foley to Teach Tiger: So Really?

Arnold Palmer Invitational

There has been much talk about what exactly Sean Foley is teaching the former best player in the world. Some have said that it’s some new age swing. Other has said it’s the dumb down version of the Stack and Tilt golf swing.

I think now its clear what exactly he is working on.

Enter into the picture Dan Carraher. Dan is a certified Stack and Tilt teacher.

A few weeks ago there was word that Sean Foley has been paying Dan to teach him how to use the Trackman equipment and how it relates to his students. Getting the right information, so to speak.

So what is the next step, bring Dan out to the tour event. Today at Bay Hill, Dan was helping Sean Foley on Tiger. However Tiger did not see this, because Foley would step away for a moment several times to get Dan’s insight to what he saw.

Dan was seen in the background going over the film with Sean and telling him what to do for Tiger.

The conclusion is that Tiger is learning from Mike and Andy via Dan’s interpretation then relaying what he sees’s to Foley.

All I can say it’s a pickle…. why not just go to the source?
 
mgranato

mgranato

New
Wonder if Tiger knew he was signing up the services of a sub-contractor.

White Belt, LLC was clearly not ready for the scope and scale of a remodel this size.

For a player to conscientiously and systematically continue to dismantle the pattern of a swing that blew away major championship fields (to the point of pop-ups and chunks) is mind boggling. If he does not get past 18, history will get yet another athlete not able to resist the temptation to out think himself.

And for Foley, the last one to 3-putt gets the snake.



Of course, if he gets past 18, everyone will be sliced bread again.
 
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Jared Willerson

Super Moderator
Foley is in over his head....bring in a stackolyte, to help sort out the mess, this is golf swing drama at its very best. The forums and facebook will be lighting up like Christmas trees over the ensuing conspiracy theory.

I want to see Woods win again, I think everyone deserves a chance to do what they're good at....I just want to see Woods get the chance.
 
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islandgolf629

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mgranato said:
We might have different definitions of the word then.

Learning to drive a "stick" on a Ferrari.
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My above comment was not directed towards you. By smart, I meant crafty enough to choose a young, not so recognizable (his own words) swing guru. As stated in the blog, it enable Foley to sub-contract without creating much of a stir. However, it looks like the cover was blown and a blog was created that let the cat out of the bag.
 
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ej20

New
I hope for his sake Graeme McDowell doesn't bump into Tiger at the Arnold Palmer Invitational.He posted an 80 in the first round.Wasn't he the one who had a good giggle when Tiger hit a 120 yard drive?Such is golf.lol
 
Todd Dugan

Todd Dugan

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Not surprising at all. Everyone assumes that Foley already knows more about the golf swing than pretty much anybody else. Recent Foley statements show lack of understanding of basic impact physics and mechanics of the swing.....For example....
"Draw the ball with your path, not the clubface".....Seriously? All else the same, the Path and Clubface requirements during impact for a given shot shape are constant.
"Tiger has zero rate of clubface closure now"...Not possible. I guarantee you that this guy thinks that the clubface can/should stay square to its arc during the swing.
"The Spin Axis has to be 2.5 times the amount that the clubface is open for an accurate draw" No, the excact Spin Axis tilt required for accurate curves varies with Spin Rate and Ball Speed.

I feel guilty pointing this stuff out. But its the truth. He's doing it with smoke and mirrors. Wooing people by quoting Socrates. Learning, as he goes, stuff that he should already know.
 
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DCgolf

New
Four (4!) fairways hit today-- last, or near it, in driving accuracy and last in distance. At BAY HiLL, a golf course where he used to win by showing up! This is the worst student/teacher match ever, reminds me of Seve/Ogrady. Chamblee hit the nail on the head in the pre game: "He keeps saying he's close. He's not close, his scoring average is 2 full shots a ROUND higher than it was before Foley". Even Tiger can't give the field 8 shots!!!
 
cmartingolf

cmartingolf

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Todd Dugan said:
Not surprising at all. Everyone assumes that Foley already knows more about the golf swing than pretty much anybody else. Recent Foley statements show lack of understanding of basic impact physics and mechanics of the swing.....For example....
"Draw the ball with your path, not the clubface".....Seriously? All else the same, the Path and Clubface requirements during impact for a given shot shape are constant.
"Tiger has zero rate of clubface closure now"...Not possible. I guarantee you that this guy thinks that the clubface can/should stay square to its arc during the swing.
"The Spin Axis has to be 2.5 times the amount that the clubface is open for an accurate draw" No, the excact Spin Axis tilt required for accurate curves varies with Spin Rate and Ball Speed.

I feel guilty pointing this stuff out. But its the truth. He's doing it with smoke and mirrors. Wooing people by quoting Socrates. Learning, as he goes, stuff that he should already know.
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Todd,

Word on the Tour is that Foley is a really good guy and an excellent "Coach." My references are solid.

I'm not a fan of the "big words" during interview, etc, but the simple fact is a lot of really good players like to hear his input regardless of the validity.

You mention "learning as you go." I learn as I go everyday and the day I don't learn something is when I'm in a pine box.

The only mistake Foley made was not bringing Bman into the fold if in fact the story of Foley and Dan working together is true.

We all have gotten a lot "smarter" in the past couple of years due to Trackman and sites where we can learn and share knowledge freely, like this site.

I for one, THOUGHT I knew a lot five years ago. Ya know, it turns out I didn't know that much, but I've sure helped a lot of golfers (maybe hurt a couple too) based on my coaching and support.

Let's assume Tiger likes hanging out with Foley as a sounding board and coach.

Let me as you this: if you were asked to step out on the Tour range tomorrow and work with Tiger, would you be a little anxious about it? Would you have 100 percent resolve in what you were going to tell him?

Billy Harmon is an old acquaintance of mine; we were playing one day and I asked him if his brother was nervous about teaching Tiger when they first got together. His answer; his brother and Tiger were a perfect fit, because he said his brothers balls were bigger than Tigers.

Dan: if you are on the range at Bay Hill. Good for you!
 
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ej20

New
Foley got Tiger at the worst time possible.Driver yips inherited from Haney made worse with Foley's underplane teaching.Underplane not so severe with the irons as they are naturally more upright so the swing works better with these clubs.Divorce and less time to practice doesn't help.

Tiger has a choice now.Go back to a more upright action where his driver will work better but perhaps get a little steep with the irons or stick with with his stack and tilted Haney swing and keep suffering the driver yips but great iron play.
 
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Brian Manzella

Administrator
I have had lunch with Hank Haney.

I have had dinner with Sean Foley.

Haney is a royal dee-eye-cee, and Sean is not.

He is a really nice guy who seems to really care. And I like that.

He and I have talked on the phone a few times, and talked about TrackMan and getting together. We will one day.

Sean is the kind of guy that knows where to look for info, & really wanted to come to the Anti-Summit but had a schedule conflict.

After talking and teaching at the TrackMan conference, I went down to see Rob Neal at Doral, hanging out with Bobby Cole and watching Tiger play his 1st 12 holes of his last round. I told Sean some of what I saw. But, really not much as it was a dinner with DT and a really nice young teacher pal of Sean's.

Whether or not Sean's ideas get Tiger where Tiger wants them to, is up to the man upstairs. Sean has done quite a good job with O'Hair, Mahan, & Rose.

I told Sean this at dinner (exact quote):

"If Hank goes off on another twitter tirade, tell him that your boy Manzella said he watched the Romano season of the Haney Project, and you are disqualified from criticizing other teachers for twenty years."

Just trying to put some real facts into the rumor mill.
 
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jbrunk

New
Brian Manzella said:
I have had lunch with Hank Haney.

I have had dinner with Sean Foley.

Haney is a royal dee-eye-cee, and Sean is not.

He is a really nice guy who seems to really care. And I like that.

He and I have talked on the phone a few times, and talked about TrackMan and getting together. We will one day.

Sean is the kind of guy that knows where to look for info, & really wanted to come to the Anti-Summit but had a schedule conflict.

After talking and teaching at the TrackMan conference, I went down to see Rob Neal at Doral, hanging out with Bobby Cole and watching Tiger play his 1st 12 holes of his last round. I told Sean some of what I saw. But, really not much as it was a dinner with DT and a really nice young teacher pal of Sean's.

Whether or not Sean's ideas get Tiger where Tiger wants them to, is up to the man upstairs. Sean has done quite a good job with O'Hair, Mahan, & Rose.

I told Sean this at dinner (exact quote):

"If Hank goes off on another twitter tirade, tell him that your boy Manzella said he watched the Romano season of the Haney Project, and you are disqualified from criticizing other teachers for twenty years."Just trying to put some real facts into the rumor mill.
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LOL. That is a classic.
 
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