Sweet spot irons.....

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Hi guys,

Any clubmakers on the forum?...

Was doing the sweet-spot test on my clubs (Tileist) the other day (tapping a tee peg point along the clubface while the club was suspended at the end of the grip)..
I am finding my iron's sweet spots are more towards the hosel than I expected...
Does anyone know a club that is manufactured today (that WE csn buy!...:)) which has the sweet spot in the visually "correct" place on the clubhead, so you don't have to set up towards the heel..

Strangely,I have a 15-year-old set of Cobras here (made while Greg Norman was in charge) and their sweet spot is perfect...
 
Do a search for Iron Playability Factor. A recognized clubmaker uses CG in rating his custom heads. The last list I saw where he rated the major manufacturers was in 05 and Included 04 Wilson Deep Red II, Hogan BH-5, Ping G2 HL, King Cobra SS-1 and TaylorMade rac HT. The oldest club on the list was the 83 Ping Eye2.
 

Leek

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Maltby publishes this list. It's very interesting. Some clubs I would have thought were very forgiving were not rated high in this. Some forged irons, especially Mizunos came in pretty high in forgiveness
 
Thanks guys,
Just checked the list..seems like my DCI's are not too forgiving (I could have told them that...:))... and not surprising considering where the sweet spot is....
 
A question of Static vs. Dynamic

Static sweetspot should be closer to the hosel. During a swing the mass of the toe of the club is moving faster than the mass of the heel therefore the sweetspot moves toward the center of the clubface.
 
Static sweetspot should be closer to the hosel. During a swing the mass of the toe of the club is moving faster than the mass of the heel therefore the sweetspot moves toward the center of the clubface.

If the sweet spot is the representation of the centre of gravity on the face of the club... can it really move within the clubhead just due to motion?????

My physics is intuitive rather than taught but i just can't believe this???

The clubface will move during the swing so that the centre of gravity lines up with the bit that is causing the motion etc... but the sweet spot stays the same place within the clubhead.... surely????

Feeling a bit dizzy....Starting to mistrust gravity now.... where is Mandrin when you need him:)
 
The proper place is near the hosel.

But how far?....
My Cobras are spot on in the little "sweet spot circle" that Cobras have on the blade.. Compared to that my Titleist are at least 3/8th inch closer to the hosel...so are the Adams set I have here...

What I mean is that it is far more "comfortable" and eye-pleasing to be setting up with the Cobras, than the others, which give you the feeling you are only 1/2 inch away from a shank...:(....

Does that mean you are setting up with the hosel near the ball Brian?....that seems like going backwards after using the Cobras for the last 14 years or so...oh well off to get a new set tomorrow....more expense....
 
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Very few irons have the SS in the middle of the clubface: every one I have seen has the SS about 2/3" closer to the hosel. Proven dynamically as well as statically.

FWIW, serious practice always requires impact tape or chalk.... there's a great satisfaction in achieving and maintaining SS impact, and it isn't automatic: sensitivity for it requires adjustments and tweaks that are very small but definite; having a correct idea of where the SS IS is, therefore, very important, to know what those need to be.
 
Goerge, I didn't say the center of the clubface....change "clubface" to "hitting area," i.e. that bit the manufacture cuts the grooves in....
On my Cobras the marked sweet spot is half way across that area, with my Titleists and Adams the sweet spot (unmarked) is more towards the heel, so there is an unbalanced feel with them at setup.
Therefore visually, it is more pleasing to address with the Cobras, and very "heel" uncomfortable with the other two..
 

Leek

New
Goerge, I didn't say the center of the clubface....change "clubface" to "hitting area," i.e. that bit the manufacture cuts the grooves in....
On my Cobras the marked sweet spot is half way across that area, with my Titleists and Adams the sweet spot (unmarked) is more towards the heel, so there is an unbalanced feel with them at setup.
Therefore visually, it is more pleasing to address with the Cobras, and very "heel" uncomfortable with the other two..

Then why not stay with the Cobras? I think it's important to have your clubs fit and then that you are confident in them. You are very confident in the Cobras, why mess up a good thing?
 
Then why not stay with the Cobras? I think it's important to have your clubs fit and then that you are confident in them. You are very confident in the Cobras, why mess up a good thing?

After about 14 years of beating (I calculated I have probably hit about 25,000 shots with the 8 iron alone) they are getting a bit worn now Leek...:) And someone stole half the original set (long irons WTF???)...

I do like the look of the new Cobra MBs that Ogilvy and Poulter have in their bags tho...wonder when they will be available for the masses?.....
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Golf's Answer Man - Brian Manzella

My best two years of golf were 1994 and 1995.

I had a set of PING EYE 2's. The number one selling club of all-time, at the time. I really loved those irons. They had been my Dad's before he got a tee time to play thew only course better than Augusta. He had shot his career round—an even par 72 on the championship course—with them. They were one degree flat, with a stock ZZ LITE shaft. I hit a little cut back then. I could—and I very often would— take something off of a shot. My favorite yardage was 128 with an 8-iron. I just "breeeezed on it."

Then, after two course-record 59's on a par-68, a pair of 64's on two different harder courses, and too many 66's to remember—and for reasons I can't explain other than the fact I made 4 birdies in a row with a borrowed set of irons—I went an ordered a set of the "borrrowed irons"—PING ISI-K. They had the "sweetspot" way closer to the center of the club. I gave my big brother Chick, Dad's clubs.

So, I went to play in a "tunamint," and I hit the first fairway on a 440 yard hole. I had 195 left. Aimed just left of the green to play my stock cut with a 3-iron. I flushed it. I posed. It went WAY, left. Bogey.

The same thing happen about 27 more times in 36 holes. Within a week I traded the ISI-K's for a set of ISI's—the smaller head.

Less trouble, but same thing.

Panic set in. I traded everything I owned except my video camera, my puppy dog and my car to get a set of IDENTCAL Eye 2's (Note, not EYE 2+'s).

I played very well with these irons for a long while. But, they weren't as good as the original set (more on that in a bit).

The original irons had PERFECT sweetspot positioning. Not just heel-to-toe, but back to front. They were ALL DESIGNED TO FEEL like an 8-iron, so besides the fact that they ALL had the sweetspot in the same spot relative to the shaft centerline, they were also the straightest sloped frequency clubs of all time in a stock set.

The EYE2+'s were good too—but not as good.

But here is the funny part—they weren't the BEST set PING EYE 2 set ever made. That was the Beryllium Copper EYE 2's (Again, note, not EYE 2+'s).

Here's how it went.

Karsten designed the PING EYE 2's my Dad and I scored all of our great scores with. Then, thanks to Kim Braly and Dave Pelz, the "Featherlite" craze began. Even PING came out with a set, the EZ LITEs. Karsten just too the mold of the EYE 2's and scooped out extra cavity to create a lighter head. He did so without moving the sweetspot, but DID increase the MOI. If the weren't C1 or C2 they'd have been great.

After Calvin Peete and Ray Floyd ruined there games—in their prime—for a brief time trying to figure our why they hit their RAM Featherlies so good on the range but not on the course, the craze died a horrible death, and PING had some expensive molds with no use at all.

Except...Karsten was genius. He knew how good the EZ LITE heads tested, so he searched the factory for a metal that when put in the EZ LITE molds, would weight the same as 17-4 stainless in the EYE 2 molds.

Beryllium Copper.

Karsten had used the alloy in a few rare putters years before, and so the Beryllium Copper EYE 2's were born, and the Beryllium Copper craze followed. The PING BeCu's were so good—especially the L-wedge—that companies figure it was a magic metal.

It did FEEL good, but the reason the PING's were so good was the accident of all time, the EZ LITE heads that would have been scrapped.

Now—you may ask—why didn't I have a set of the Beryllium Copper PING EYE 2's (Once again, note, not EYE 2+'s)?

I did. I loved them.

One day, I was showing Mike Finney how to "float-load." He proceeded to hit a 200 yard six iron with a shag ball and created so much force with the downloading of the shaft and his "accumulators," that the shaft broke in half and the head flew down the practice area.

I would have gotten the club fixed, but I was offered $600 for the irons as is. So, like a dummy, I sold a set that now just the L-wedge is worth that much. I got a set of Accuforms that I don't think I ever shot in the 60's once with. That was 1989.

In 1993 I got a new set of Beryllium Copper EYE 2+'s 'that were good, but not as good. Mike Finney played with an identical set for years.

The whole trick to these great PINGS was the sweetspot, folks trust me, too much toward the toe and the club is unplayable. The Pings have been examined by ever other company, and copied in every way possible. Including by PING. The "best" copy, in my opinion, was the Callaway X-12's. The Taylor Made R7 TP's that I now have are another set that has some EYE @ "in them." But those original sets had a VERSION of the ZZ LITE shaft that is not made anymore.

You see, PING changed the ZZ LITE dozens of time without telling anyone. The originals were the best, and most "straight lined."

Like Don Villavaso always told me, "Babe, if you like dose clubs so much, ya needa COUPLE of "backup" sets. The quality always goes down. That's why I have 100 pair of dese blue seersucker pants..."

One side note—Tom Bartlett HAS a set of the ORIGINAL Beryllium Copper PING EYE 2's (For the last time, note, not EYE 2+'s). He doesn't play with them, but he ain't selling either.

He knows better. ;)
 
Because I wanted to do anything Tom did (golfwise only), I bought a set from Stan "the Pulla" Stopa, that he used to shoot 58 at Audubon. Serial number 6851 on the hosel. 1 iron through Lob wedge. Unfortunately, they are pretty beaten up. As Tom, Mike or Brian will tell you, in those days I was not afraid of "Judge Smails-ing them accross 2 fairways (Mike says that I'm the only guy he ever saw break a club after a practice swing).
 
My best two years of golf were 1994 and 1995.

Seems like a lot of genuine golf clubs were made around that time....

The only other I have seen in recent times were by a company called Andrews and Aberdeen about 5-6 years ago.
Made of Boron with crushed diamond on the face (there were infomercials) and the were manufactured in American foundry. The shafts were graphite, and mnyfactured (in the US) without needing any trimming after coming out of the mould (which is a cause of frequency issues with most graphites)...
The shafts were personalised with your own initials (made to order, obviously) and you broke a shaft they apparently could lay up another one exactly the same, from your records...

Only problem was the price, which is why they probably don't make them any more.......$400 each....
 
If these irons are so good Brian....why doesn't PING stick to "the tried and true"?

How are their new irons? I've been looking at s-58s.......would give the i5s a real good look too if they had less offset...
 
...

If these irons are so good Brian....why doesn't PING stick to "the tried and true"?

In a word birdie...profit..

The Far Eastern forges probably can't live up to true quality control parameters....plus the steels are inferior, plus lighter clubs (the OEM's conned us bigtime with that one) cost less to make...
 

Brian Manzella

Administrator
Well....

In a word birdie...profit..

The Far Eastern forges probably can't live up to true quality control parameters....plus the steels are inferior, plus lighter clubs (the OEM's conned us bigtime with that one) cost less to make...

Karsten Manufacturing, makers of PING Golf Equipment, cast allof the own clubs at their Dolphin Foundry.

Dolphin's quality is so good, they do work for the military and the aerospace industry.

Birdie, the S-58's are very good.
 

Tom Bartlett

Administrator
When I was on pings mini tour staff I ordered a few EYE 2 BeCu L wedges to match my set (they went by the serial number) gave one to a friend and have one back in my bag right now. Keep looking at those pings and threatening to put them back in the line up.
 
Thanks Brian. I noticed they seem to have a lot of weight in the toe too...

plus lighter clubs (the OEM's conned us bigtime with that one) cost less to make...

U think so? Makes sense in a way. I do know I like heavier heads than the normal D-1, D-2..........
 
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