3D Biomechanics...the next frontier

[Brian Manzella]

As we continue to research Project 1.68, we will be spending some more time with 3D and the whole of Biomechanics.

Mike Finney and Jon Hardesty spent some time with Chris Welch this year in Louisville, we had Rob Neal at the ANTI-SUMMIT and plan to spend more time with him, and Damon Lucas is geared up and ready to go at his new Institute with 3D technology.

The field of 3D measurement of the movements of the body in space, and the "Kinetic Chain" is a rapidly expanding, multi-faceted world of data that is so far, quite new to many in my business.

Mike Finney, Tom Bartlett and I though about getting a machine way back in the Mike McTiegue days, when we demoed his product at the show.

This was after he published some numbers from his data that rocked the golf instruction world (at the highest level) at the time.

My pal James Leitz got his AMM 6° 3D machine about four years ago, and he has been very generous in having me over to do all sorts of experiments that I have talked about here.

A lot of credit for getting folks to talk in terms of "right-side bend" and "flexion" should go to Bennet & Plummer. Although the first I heard of the terminology was back before the McTiegue days, they have made the terms more mainstream.

At the Anti-Summit, we talked a lot about ground reaction forces, shear forces, and many other things that are often not discussed on instruction sites on the web.

One thing is sure:

There is no text anywhere explaining the movements of the body segments in the swing that is in a form regular golfers can use and apply.

We intend to change that.


Where is Bio-Mechanics going in golf instruction in the next few years?

 

[chipingguru]

Well I suppose one there is understanding of what is actually happeneing with the club during the swing (or what should happen), I suppose focussing on what muscles make it work and when is crucial. Otherwise the info is not all that useful.

IMO, the key ingredient is somehow increasing the ability of the student to have awareness of what he is currently doing vs. what he needs to do.

Sounds like a hugely important deal to me. And a hell of an undertaking!

 

[spktho]

This is hands down the #1 most important research in the golf swing.

 

[gmbtempe]

With 3d going mainstream will a device, or company like Trackman, implement it into their systems? Or is it apples and oranges, like you would need both?

 

[Michael Finney]

This is hands down the #1 most important research in the golf swing.

i get it....hands down

 

[TaylorMadeAP25]

Are you guys not going to have Phil Cheetham along for the ride?

 

[spmurph]

Could every golfer benefit from 3D analysis of their swing?

 

[macduffer]

How has Dariusz not been on this thread? I'd have thought he'd have been in there faster than a fat girl on a hotdog!

 

[Ringer]

Biomechanics IS our golf swing.

 

[Kevin Shields]

With 3d going mainstream will a device, or company like Trackman, implement it into their systems? Or is it apples and oranges, like you would need both?

It would be cool, but I think club/ballflight monitoring vs 3D body movement devices might be always separate.

 

[Dariusz J.]

How has Dariusz not been on this thread? I'd have thought he'd have been in there faster than a fat girl on a hotdog!

Smiling...as I said on another forum - my heart raises when I see that generally, the awareness of the feedback between physics and anatomy is rapidly growing in our golf community. That's the real future. And, as said in another thread here, I see also a great future coming here to Brian's place. I can only say GOOD LUCK, Gents. And if I could be of any small help - I am at the disposal.

Cheers

 

[ZAP]

2011 is going to be a good year. I can just tell.

 

[tongzilla]

I hope people will use bio-mechanics to really further golf instruction rather than to support their own swing theories.

 

[Weetbix]

Where does biomechanics fit in regard to the golf swing? Is it limited to how the body creates speed efficiently and effectively so as to support and not detract from the proper "mechanics" (like grip, posture, ball position, the relationship of the body, arms and hands during the swing)? Or do they actually create good mechanics? Or are they inseparable?

 

[ej20]

Biomechanics in golf is still based a lot on opinion.Zenolink for example measures what we do differently to the pros and then try to develop our movement patterns closer to theirs.So which pro model do we use?Hogan,Nicklaus or Tiger or just a generic pro pattern?Is there a generic pro pattern?Who is best quailfied to determine which pattern is "biomechanically" superior?Would that pattern be useable for the average player?I can guarantee no one here would be able to perform the movement pattern of an olympic hurdler or gymnast,not even close.

I can see plenty of wars between different biomechanical camps in the future.

 

[natep]

Biomechanics in golf is still based a lot on opinion.Zenolink for example measures what we do differently to the pros and then try to develop our movement patterns closer to theirs.So which pro model do we use?Hogan,Nicklaus or Tiger or just a generic pro pattern?Is there a generic pro pattern?Who is best quailfied to determine which pattern is "biomechanically" superior?Would that pattern be useable for the average player?I can guarantee no one here would be able to perform the movement pattern of an olympic hurdler or gymnast,not even close.

I can see plenty of wars between different biomechanical camps in the future.

Excellent point.

 

[jpvegas1]

I hope people will use bio-mechanics to really further golf instruction rather than to support their own swing theories.

Leo: good to hear from you again. I whole heartedly agree with your sentiment on this issue.

Too often when doing research I've seen people go in with preconceived notions of what they want to find and the results either get skewed or they overlook information that runs contrary to what they want.

3-D will give lots of information, so what's of paramount importance is that the right questions are asked.

 

[spktho]

Gather as much 3d information on as many of the best players in the world you can, then "run the numbers" to try and find similarities. The biggest point being a large sample size. One also needs to pay attention to the variations among all the best players and realize there may not be one best way to swing a golf club.

 

[Dariusz J.]

Biomechanics in golf is still based a lot on opinion.Zenolink for example measures what we do differently to the pros and then try to develop our movement patterns closer to theirs.So which pro model do we use?Hogan,Nicklaus or Tiger or just a generic pro pattern?Is there a generic pro pattern?Who is best quailfied to determine which pattern is "biomechanically" superior?Would that pattern be useable for the average player?I can guarantee no one here would be able to perform the movement pattern of an olympic hurdler or gymnast,not even close.

I can see plenty of wars between different biomechanical camps in the future.

That's why in my amateur researches I choose to work only in macroscale, i.e. searching for optimal biokinetic objective pattern for all humans for a given goal (in my case the goal is repeatability) - while treating all humans very generally, as creatures 'equipped' with a head, main body and distal parts (two legs and two arms). I am of the opinion it is a good starting point.

Cheers

 

[muthusiva2010]

are you teaching a hybrid from golf machine with the use of track man.
I have to admit there is some mathematical prediction is involved with the trackman as the ball,club is not traced with any accurate placement of a tracking source in either of the 'two main' objects in a golf swing. I am yet to be convinced of its full accuracy!