A couple more mistakes in The Golfing Machine

[Brian Manzella]

Here we go....

Listen close....

The top of the D-Plane, the TRUE 3D POINT of the clubface—lie angle tool style—is NOT formed at separation...

I repeat...

The clubface "point" that influences EVERY DAMN SHOT EVER HIT, is NOT formed at separation...

Not at separation...

Not...

I have said it before and I was wrong.

I am sorry.

But where did I get such an INCORRECT IDEA??

The Golfing Machine....

So from the book:

1-L #17. The Clubface needs to be square to the Line-Of-Flight only at Point
of Separation.

WRONG.

2-D-0 The direction of the ball will always be practically at right angles to the Clubface and square to the leading edge of' the Clubface at separation.

WRONG AGAIN.

2-D-0 Deviations in Horizontal Hinge Action during Impact can produce considerable variation in direction but little change in trajectory. Deviations in Vertical Hinge Action during Impact can produce great variation in trajectory but little change in direction.

AS WRONG AS IT CAN POSSIBLY BE.

The point of maximum deformation, when the ball is being hit, which is somewhere between impact and separation, is where the clubface point influence on ball flight occurs.

Period, end-of-story.

And all that deviation during impact stuff, is a PIPE DREAM. And it is ALL OVER THE BOOK.

So the book is wrong in those places, which is easily fixable if someone wanted to fix it.


So, can the "Everything in the Book is Correct Science crowd"—heretofore known as the Book Literalists—admit this mistake.


Can they?


Hmmmm.....?


.....waiting.......................................

 

[Brian Manzella]

And BTW, there was MUCH MORE in the way of mistakes found out at the Manziposium, but let's see if we can get a retraction on this SIMPLE DAMN couple of points first.

 

[Mike O]

Here we go....

Listen close....

The top of the D-Plane, the TRUE 3D POINT of the clubface—lie angle tool style—is NOT formed at separation...


Period, end-of-story.


So, can the "Everything in the Book is Correct Science crowd"—heretofore known as the Book Literalists—admit this mistake.


Can they?


Hmmmm.....?


.....waiting.......................................

Brian,
Don't mean to poop on your party but the first mistake is to "worry" about someone else's arrogance or mistaken belief. It's not the who but the what that's important and likewise it's the "is" not the "they think" that's important in anyone's life. However, everyone has their own style and approach - just seems wasted energy to me. Secondly, there is no end to the story - it just gets better.

 

[birly-shirly]

Brian - I get that it's the point of maximum deformation that determines clubface influence. Is there any meaningful clubface rotation from the moment of impact until separation, on a "sweet" shot?

 

[matt kluck]

Center contact

Given center contact there is minimal change.
MK

 

[bax1865]

Just a matter of time

Given center contact there is minimal change.
MK

Minimal but even minimal is measurable. Perhaps just as minimal is the time period between the Point of Maximum Compression and the time of Seperation. I agree that it would be a good idea to update the information so the golf world can finally get the correct information into their educated hands.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Brian,

I thought you made a great post here not too long ago about not even trying to prove people wrong because after awhile it's an exercise in futility.

My feeling as a poster here is that I'm more interested in what you have to say than what other people on a different forum have to say.

I can understand if they are calling you out on that very forum (perhaps they have, I don't read that forum all of the time), but it's like you're back to arguing with the guy on whether the Jordan Jefferson pass hit the receiver in the numbers or sailed over his head.

Personally, I can't believe that Lee isn't the LSU starter anyway





3JACK

 

[greenfree]

Brian,

I thought you made a great post here not too long ago about not even trying to prove people wrong because after awhile it's an exercise in futility.

My feeling as a poster here is that I'm more interested in what you have to say than what other people on a different forum have to say.

I can understand if they are calling you out on that very forum (perhaps they have, I don't read that forum all of the time), but it's like you're back to arguing with the guy on whether the Jordan Jefferson pass hit the receiver in the numbers or sailed over his head.

Personally, I can't believe that Lee isn't the LSU starter anyway





3JACK

You can prove people wrong, people get proved wrong all the time, nothing wrong with that, its progress, been done thru out history, the smart one's change or adapt, the other's....? my wife tell's me i'm wrong everyday and everyday i say she's wrong about me been wrong, is that wrong...LOL.

 

[Ringer]

Although the "Leave them alone and post your good work Brian" sentiment seems very nice, the reality is if it weren't for "that crowd" the Symposium probably never would have happened. They were the catalyst that put the fire unter Brians azz (and mine too).

If we don't look to their challenges and misconceptions we wouldn't have any reason to look at the real science.

Sometimes arguing is a necessary evil to find the truth. It just is. Otherwise why investigate it?

 

[mandrin]

Although the "Leave them alone and post your good work Brian" sentiment seems very nice, the reality is if it weren't for "that crowd" the Symposium probably never would have happened.

They were the catalyst that put the fire unter Brians azz (and mine too).

If we don't look to their challenges and misconceptions we wouldn't have any reason to look at the real science.

Sometimes arguing is a necessary evil to find the truth. It just is. Otherwise why investigate it?

Ringer,

And mine too !

Just a visit to a TGM forum is all that one needs to convince oneself that they are rather special indeed. As any group thinking to possess the final and ultimate truth they are almost ridiculous going around in circles in their cosy mutual congratulation society.

If someone claims to possess an all-encompassing scientific approach to golf than one is fully justified to have a very critical look as this is inherent in any scientific endeavour. If they just could admit to be at least partially wrong would be a major step in the right direction.

Members have to make really a nuisance of themselves before they are banned from any forum. But I was not allowed to even post once on LBG and only after a few days, without any notice, barred from iseekgolf. They are so darned scared of letting any scientist on their forums having a close look at all that they claim as the ultimate truth and possibly create doubt in the minds of their obedient disciples.

 

[mb6606]

"The club and ball are in contact for only about a half a thousandth of a second, or half a millisecond. That's not very long-it takes you 100 milliseconds to blink, 2000 times longer than the time the club and ball actually touch each other."

 

[DOCW3]

Return on Investment

How influential is TGM on the community--the Tours, PGA Professionals, recreational golfers? Is attention to TGM an anchor or wind in the sails for BM Golf? How do Brian's advisors feel about this? BTW, does anyone know the total book sales?

 

[Michael Finney]

it doesn't matter what is politically correct - what matters is what is correct.....

all of us here can live with the consequences - in the end, we can sleep at night knowing that our goal was, is, and always will be the truth

 

[DOCW3]

Is TGM considered the "truth" on the Tour? Who does TGM influence and how will diminishing that influence benefit BM Golf? How will proving every page of TGM wrong benefit Brian if TGM is not the Tour Bible? If Brian is not on that elite practice ground because entry requires a TGM ticket, I will understand.

 

[Richie3Jack]

Sometimes arguing is a necessary evil to find the truth. It just is. Otherwise why investigate it?

As Roger Staubach once said 'winning isn't about getting ahead of others, it's about getting ahead of yourself.'

I understand that debate can be healthy, but Brian himself stated that he realized that there was no point to it with certain people. I want to find the truth about the swing to better myself, not to win an argument.





3JACK

 

[DCgolf]

When one's brand is built on "the whole truth and nothing but the truth" even the slightest admission of error is a major blow to their image and ultimately their viability as a company. The worst thing to say is, Period.. final... end of story(!) because thousands of years of recorded history tell us that might not be the case-EVER, oops.

 

[Michael Finney]

Is TGM considered the "truth" on the Tour? Who does TGM influence and how will diminishing that influence benefit BM Golf? How will proving every page of TGM wrong benefit Brian if TGM is not the Tour Bible? If Brian is not on that elite practice ground because entry requires a TGM ticket, I will understand.

none of what you say matters a bit - we're in it to find the truth....if it turns out to be TGM, so be it......TGM futures are trading lower, however, at this point

 

[Michael Finney]

As Roger Staubach once said 'winning isn't about getting ahead of others, it's about getting ahead of yourself.'

I understand that debate can be healthy, but Brian himself stated that he realized that there was no point to it with certain people. I want to find the truth about the swing to better myself, not to win an argument.





3JACK

Richie, why can't you let Brian do his own thing?....if he wants to play nice, he'll play nice....if he wants to mix it up, he'll mix it up....

he's been in this game for almost 30 years - non stop by the way, he didn't take 20 years off.....

 

[Richie3Jack]

Richie, why can't you let Brian do his own thing?....if he wants to play nice, he'll play nice....if he wants to mix it up, he'll mix it up....

he's been in this game for almost 30 years - non stop by the way, he didn't take 20 years off.....

He can do whatever he wants. But it wasn't like he wrote that post a few years ago. I'm not mad, I just don't understand.




3JACK

 

[Michael Finney]

He can do whatever he wants. But it wasn't like he wrote that post a few years ago. I'm not mad, I just don't understand.




3JACK

you have to know brian